37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 309352 |
Time | |
Date | 199506 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lga |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2500 msl bound upper : 3000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90 |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 7000 flight time type : 3000 |
ASRS Report | 309352 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 3000 |
ASRS Report | 308570 |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Just prior to crossing verrazano bridge and leveling at our assigned altitude of 3000 ft MSL, the controller cleared us for the river visual approach to runway 13 at lga. The approach plate specifies for us to remain 'at or above 2000 ft as long as possible.' we continued a shallow descent (approximately 300- 400 FPM) towards 2000 ft. Approximately abeam the world trade center, the approach controller asked what our altitude was and I replied we were passing 2500 ft going down to 2000 ft. He responded that we were supposed to maintain 3000 ft MSL until abeam central park. We climbed back up to 3000 ft and continued with the visual approach with no further problems. Discussing the situation with the captain, neither of us could recall being given any restrs other than cleared the river visual runway 13. If a higher altitude is required on the approach, it should be specified. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter flies the B-757. He has not heard from the FAA on this incident. He was pleased to learn that his report was not the only one that the ASRS has received on this approach. He does not recall if this approach is in his data base, but believes that 'he was flying off of the approach chart.' facility procedures specialist at new york TRACON stated that all aircraft assigned the river visual approach are issued 'maintain 3000 ft until abeam central park' for noise abatement. Apparently, for some reason the flight crew did not year or receive that part of the clearance. It was mentioned that this is the second report within the last couple of months where a reporter claims they descended below 3000 ft claiming they were not issued a restr. He said that he would ask the facility quality assurance office to look at the approach to see if the altitude restr can be added to the approach without violating the charted visual flight procedure order.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: THERE IS A PHILOSOPHICAL DIFFERENCE OF OPINION BTWN A TRACON APCH CTLR AND THE APCH CHARTS.
Narrative: JUST PRIOR TO XING VERRAZANO BRIDGE AND LEVELING AT OUR ASSIGNED ALT OF 3000 FT MSL, THE CTLR CLRED US FOR THE RIVER VISUAL APCH TO RWY 13 AT LGA. THE APCH PLATE SPECIFIES FOR US TO REMAIN 'AT OR ABOVE 2000 FT AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.' WE CONTINUED A SHALLOW DSCNT (APPROX 300- 400 FPM) TOWARDS 2000 FT. APPROX ABEAM THE WORLD TRADE CTR, THE APCH CTLR ASKED WHAT OUR ALT WAS AND I REPLIED WE WERE PASSING 2500 FT GOING DOWN TO 2000 FT. HE RESPONDED THAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO MAINTAIN 3000 FT MSL UNTIL ABEAM CENTRAL PARK. WE CLBED BACK UP TO 3000 FT AND CONTINUED WITH THE VISUAL APCH WITH NO FURTHER PROBS. DISCUSSING THE SIT WITH THE CAPT, NEITHER OF US COULD RECALL BEING GIVEN ANY RESTRS OTHER THAN CLRED THE RIVER VISUAL RWY 13. IF A HIGHER ALT IS REQUIRED ON THE APCH, IT SHOULD BE SPECIFIED. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE RPTR FLIES THE B-757. HE HAS NOT HEARD FROM THE FAA ON THIS INCIDENT. HE WAS PLEASED TO LEARN THAT HIS RPT WAS NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT THE ASRS HAS RECEIVED ON THIS APCH. HE DOES NOT RECALL IF THIS APCH IS IN HIS DATA BASE, BUT BELIEVES THAT 'HE WAS FLYING OFF OF THE APCH CHART.' FACILITY PROCS SPECIALIST AT NEW YORK TRACON STATED THAT ALL ACFT ASSIGNED THE RIVER VISUAL APCH ARE ISSUED 'MAINTAIN 3000 FT UNTIL ABEAM CENTRAL PARK' FOR NOISE ABATEMENT. APPARENTLY, FOR SOME REASON THE FLC DID NOT YEAR OR RECEIVE THAT PART OF THE CLRNC. IT WAS MENTIONED THAT THIS IS THE SECOND RPT WITHIN THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS WHERE A RPTR CLAIMS THEY DSNDED BELOW 3000 FT CLAIMING THEY WERE NOT ISSUED A RESTR. HE SAID THAT HE WOULD ASK THE FACILITY QUALITY ASSURANCE OFFICE TO LOOK AT THE APCH TO SEE IF THE ALT RESTR CAN BE ADDED TO THE APCH WITHOUT VIOLATING THE CHARTED VISUAL FLT PROC ORDER.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.