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Reporter first officer is worried that the flight continued under IFR beyond the clearance limit without a clearance.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 309698 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199507 |
| Day | Mon |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lax |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 10000 msl bound upper : 10000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | arrival star : star |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 7000 |
| ASRS Report | 309698 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | other anomaly other other anomaly other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Chart Or Publication |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
| Publication | Unspecified |
Narrative:
On civet 1 arrival into lax, we were vectored to expedite arrival and asked to maintain 320 KTS. We assumed we were #1 in sequence reference other arriving aircraft for lax. Clearance was to intercept the runway 25L localizer 'cleared civet 1 lower altitudes.' shortly after intercepting the runway 25L localizer at bremr intersection, we were 320 KTS, assigned 250 KTS, then 180 KTS, then 210 KTS, all within a 4 min time span. To say we were a little busy would be an understatement, but we complied with all of the step-down altitudes on the civet 1 arrival. At intersection 'arnes' on the civet 1 it says to 'expect approach clearance' for the ILS runway 25L at lax. With all of the frequency changes inbound and the congestion on socal approach frequency, we thought we had approach clearance for the ILS runway 25L since we basically were complying with 'lost communication' procedures due to socal's frequency saturation. Also, since they had us going as fast as possible inbound (320 KTS with expedite vectors), it seems unlikely that we would be holding at arnes (our supposed clearance limit) since we were cleared to intercept the localizer runway 25L lax. This gets pretty confusing but when you get to arnes where will you go and at what altitude? Since we were essentially 'lost communication' we elected to descend below 10000 ft and continue the ILS runway 25L at lax. Recommendation: the civet 1 arrival at lax should have a published holding pattern at 'arnes' intersection, and a note that clearly says 'if approach clearance not received by arnes -- enter holding do not descend on the runway 25L localizer.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: RPTR FO IS WORRIED THAT THE FLT CONTINUED UNDER IFR BEYOND THE CLRNC LIMIT WITHOUT A CLRNC.
Narrative: ON CIVET 1 ARR INTO LAX, WE WERE VECTORED TO EXPEDITE ARR AND ASKED TO MAINTAIN 320 KTS. WE ASSUMED WE WERE #1 IN SEQUENCE REF OTHER ARRIVING ACFT FOR LAX. CLRNC WAS TO INTERCEPT THE RWY 25L LOC 'CLRED CIVET 1 LOWER ALTS.' SHORTLY AFTER INTERCEPTING THE RWY 25L LOC AT BREMR INTXN, WE WERE 320 KTS, ASSIGNED 250 KTS, THEN 180 KTS, THEN 210 KTS, ALL WITHIN A 4 MIN TIME SPAN. TO SAY WE WERE A LITTLE BUSY WOULD BE AN UNDERSTATEMENT, BUT WE COMPLIED WITH ALL OF THE STEP-DOWN ALTS ON THE CIVET 1 ARR. AT INTXN 'ARNES' ON THE CIVET 1 IT SAYS TO 'EXPECT APCH CLRNC' FOR THE ILS RWY 25L AT LAX. WITH ALL OF THE FREQ CHANGES INBOUND AND THE CONGESTION ON SOCAL APCH FREQ, WE THOUGHT WE HAD APCH CLRNC FOR THE ILS RWY 25L SINCE WE BASICALLY WERE COMPLYING WITH 'LOST COM' PROCS DUE TO SOCAL'S FREQ SATURATION. ALSO, SINCE THEY HAD US GOING AS FAST AS POSSIBLE INBOUND (320 KTS WITH EXPEDITE VECTORS), IT SEEMS UNLIKELY THAT WE WOULD BE HOLDING AT ARNES (OUR SUPPOSED CLRNC LIMIT) SINCE WE WERE CLRED TO INTERCEPT THE LOC RWY 25L LAX. THIS GETS PRETTY CONFUSING BUT WHEN YOU GET TO ARNES WHERE WILL YOU GO AND AT WHAT ALT? SINCE WE WERE ESSENTIALLY 'LOST COM' WE ELECTED TO DSND BELOW 10000 FT AND CONTINUE THE ILS RWY 25L AT LAX. RECOMMENDATION: THE CIVET 1 ARR AT LAX SHOULD HAVE A PUBLISHED HOLDING PATTERN AT 'ARNES' INTXN, AND A NOTE THAT CLRLY SAYS 'IF APCH CLRNC NOT RECEIVED BY ARNES -- ENTER HOLDING DO NOT DSND ON THE RWY 25L LOC.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.