37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 317970 |
Time | |
Date | 199510 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : tnv airport : iah |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 9000 msl bound upper : 10000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : iah |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | cruise other descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star enroute : on vectors enroute airway : iah |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 110 flight time total : 4200 flight time type : 110 |
ASRS Report | 317970 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 9000 |
ASRS Report | 318198 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | other other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We had been vectored off the arrival (struk 8) for traffic to give us adequate separation from an aircraft ahead of us. We were vectored west of tnv VOR and when separation was adequate we were told to proceed direct tnv. We were then told to cross marit at 10000 ft. We crossed marit at 10000 ft and 250 KTS but the vectoring had caused us to be behind schedule and the captain told me to request deletion of the 250 KT restr. We were talking to houston approach. When I requested the deletion of the 250 KTS restr approach did not respond so I asked them again. The second time they responded with 'descend and maintain 9000 ft.' I responded 'down to 9000 ft.' the captain initiated a slow descent. We were about 5 DME past marit when approach said 'I told you to descend to 9000 ft. I need you to descend now!' we then began to expedite the descent. At the time they called we were at about 9800 ft in a very slow descent. We were never told to expedite on the initial clearance. We were not apprised of any abnormal traffic situation until later when the controller said he needed us at 9000 ft now. The controller then pointed out the traffic which we were well clear of (it passed several mi left and over 1000 ft above our altitude). The controller asked us to give him a call. We felt all along we were following the controller's instructions and would have initiated an expedited descent had approach initially informed us of his problem with the departure, or if he had told us where he needed us at 9000 ft by. Basically we had no idea there was a problem until about 5 mi past marit when he called and told us he wanted us at 9000 ft now. For reference, to be smooth, power reductions for dscnts (with no extenuating circumstances) usually takes 3-5 mi. If told to expedite descent through an altitude this will be modified to accommodate ATC but with the absence of any direction from ATC or any other extenuating circumstances the captain's descent was normal for our perceived situation. It is also important to note that when approach informed us of the problem our reaction was immediate and the descent to 9000 ft was expedited. Supplemental information from acn 318198: told to descend to 9000 ft. Slow initiating descent due to still making PA at above 10000 ft and since we were so far out of hou, took 9 mi to reach 9000 ft and this caused some problem with approach control. Sorry! My fault!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: NON ADHERENCE TO ATC CLRNC INSTRUCTION.
Narrative: WE HAD BEEN VECTORED OFF THE ARR (STRUK 8) FOR TFC TO GIVE US ADEQUATE SEPARATION FROM AN ACFT AHEAD OF US. WE WERE VECTORED W OF TNV VOR AND WHEN SEPARATION WAS ADEQUATE WE WERE TOLD TO PROCEED DIRECT TNV. WE WERE THEN TOLD TO CROSS MARIT AT 10000 FT. WE CROSSED MARIT AT 10000 FT AND 250 KTS BUT THE VECTORING HAD CAUSED US TO BE BEHIND SCHEDULE AND THE CAPT TOLD ME TO REQUEST DELETION OF THE 250 KT RESTR. WE WERE TALKING TO HOUSTON APCH. WHEN I REQUESTED THE DELETION OF THE 250 KTS RESTR APCH DID NOT RESPOND SO I ASKED THEM AGAIN. THE SECOND TIME THEY RESPONDED WITH 'DSND AND MAINTAIN 9000 FT.' I RESPONDED 'DOWN TO 9000 FT.' THE CAPT INITIATED A SLOW DSCNT. WE WERE ABOUT 5 DME PAST MARIT WHEN APCH SAID 'I TOLD YOU TO DSND TO 9000 FT. I NEED YOU TO DSND NOW!' WE THEN BEGAN TO EXPEDITE THE DSCNT. AT THE TIME THEY CALLED WE WERE AT ABOUT 9800 FT IN A VERY SLOW DSCNT. WE WERE NEVER TOLD TO EXPEDITE ON THE INITIAL CLRNC. WE WERE NOT APPRISED OF ANY ABNORMAL TFC SIT UNTIL LATER WHEN THE CTLR SAID HE NEEDED US AT 9000 FT NOW. THE CTLR THEN POINTED OUT THE TFC WHICH WE WERE WELL CLR OF (IT PASSED SEVERAL MI L AND OVER 1000 FT ABOVE OUR ALT). THE CTLR ASKED US TO GIVE HIM A CALL. WE FELT ALL ALONG WE WERE FOLLOWING THE CTLR'S INSTRUCTIONS AND WOULD HAVE INITIATED AN EXPEDITED DSCNT HAD APCH INITIALLY INFORMED US OF HIS PROB WITH THE DEP, OR IF HE HAD TOLD US WHERE HE NEEDED US AT 9000 FT BY. BASICALLY WE HAD NO IDEA THERE WAS A PROB UNTIL ABOUT 5 MI PAST MARIT WHEN HE CALLED AND TOLD US HE WANTED US AT 9000 FT NOW. FOR REF, TO BE SMOOTH, PWR REDUCTIONS FOR DSCNTS (WITH NO EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES) USUALLY TAKES 3-5 MI. IF TOLD TO EXPEDITE DSCNT THROUGH AN ALT THIS WILL BE MODIFIED TO ACCOMMODATE ATC BUT WITH THE ABSENCE OF ANY DIRECTION FROM ATC OR ANY OTHER EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES THE CAPT'S DSCNT WAS NORMAL FOR OUR PERCEIVED SIT. IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT WHEN APCH INFORMED US OF THE PROB OUR REACTION WAS IMMEDIATE AND THE DSCNT TO 9000 FT WAS EXPEDITED. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 318198: TOLD TO DSND TO 9000 FT. SLOW INITIATING DSCNT DUE TO STILL MAKING PA AT ABOVE 10000 FT AND SINCE WE WERE SO FAR OUT OF HOU, TOOK 9 MI TO REACH 9000 FT AND THIS CAUSED SOME PROB WITH APCH CTL. SORRY! MY FAULT!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.