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Attributes | |
ACN | 322928 |
Time | |
Date | 199512 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : epr airport : ory |
State Reference | FO |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 7000 msl bound upper : 10000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Dawn |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : ory |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 60 flight time total : 18000 flight time type : 800 |
ASRS Report | 322928 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 75 flight time total : 11000 flight time type : 400 |
ASRS Report | 322846 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : became reoriented other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
Background: general strike in france. ATC, etc, operated by supervisory personnel only. Communications, although in english, are difficult to comprehend at times. Replacement personnel under training. We were west of dinard (din VOR) at FL280 and were cleared present position direct chartres VOR and descend to FL100 and proceed via chw-korvi-epernon (EPR) to expect holding at EPR. At chw we were given a frequency change. We dialed in the wrong frequency, and after several attempts went back to last assigned frequency. We did not get anyone to respond on previous assigned frequency. Commence descent from FL100 to FL60 as published in STAR. Copilot was looking on approach plate for another frequency when ATC finally called us back. We did not have clearance to descend. We descended through a holding pattern, requiring several aircraft to commence evasive action as directed by french ATC. Our perception was that we were cleared for the initial arrival. Had we been in communication at this critical time clarification could have been obtained. Come to find out after discussion with french ATC, the commercial STAR is wrong and has been for over 1 yr. Contributing factors: 1) flying through the night for 6 1/2 hours and being tired. 2) poor communications due to language differences -- very difficult to understand. 3) reserve captain flying once a month -- had not been to paris in 6 months. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: this flight crew was flying a STAR into paris when they lost radio contact with TRACON. They followed what was written on the STAR chart and descended to the lowest altitude for their location, as written on the chart. They were certain it was ok to descend to FL60, but they were given climb instructions back to FL80 when radio contact was established. They were also given different headings as they had descended through a holding pattern. Upon arriving at the gate in paris, a controller met the flight crew and told them the following: if they had radio receiving problems, they were to hold until their ETA before continuing any farther. This hold would have been at epernon (EPR). Although these instructions are not written on the STAR chart, the controller states the flight crew charts are wrong and they don't like the charts that are published for the airline. They were to have held at FL100 until the ETA, although none of this is indicated by the STAR chart. Controller also stated another air carrier had done the same thing recently and other incidents like that have occurred. Flight crew has suggested the STAR chart be amended to say, 'expect FL80' instead of descend to a lower altitude. They feel they would not have descended at all with loss of radio contact if the chart had stated, 'expect descent to FL60.' there was a general strike going on in france, the ATC was being operated by supervisory personnel. Second: what was learned from the approach chart publishers -- all the charts for europe are printed and maintained in a german city. The most current STAR chart today is the same as was dated when this incident happend. The flight crew was using an up-to-date STAR chart. Supplemental information from acn 322846: the controller then informed us we were never to leave FL100! After landing, one of the controllers met us and told us that when holdings are in progress at EPR VOR the descend instructions on STAR 10-2B are no longer valid.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACFT DSNDS TO APCH ALT WITH LOSS OF RADIO COMS. TRACON STATES THEY WERE NOT TO DSND THAT LOW WITHOUT TRACON CLRNC.
Narrative: BACKGROUND: GENERAL STRIKE IN FRANCE. ATC, ETC, OPERATED BY SUPERVISORY PERSONNEL ONLY. COMS, ALTHOUGH IN ENGLISH, ARE DIFFICULT TO COMPREHEND AT TIMES. REPLACEMENT PERSONNEL UNDER TRAINING. WE WERE W OF DINARD (DIN VOR) AT FL280 AND WERE CLRED PRESENT POS DIRECT CHARTRES VOR AND DSND TO FL100 AND PROCEED VIA CHW-KORVI-EPERNON (EPR) TO EXPECT HOLDING AT EPR. AT CHW WE WERE GIVEN A FREQ CHANGE. WE DIALED IN THE WRONG FREQ, AND AFTER SEVERAL ATTEMPTS WENT BACK TO LAST ASSIGNED FREQ. WE DID NOT GET ANYONE TO RESPOND ON PREVIOUS ASSIGNED FREQ. COMMENCE DSCNT FROM FL100 TO FL60 AS PUBLISHED IN STAR. COPLT WAS LOOKING ON APCH PLATE FOR ANOTHER FREQ WHEN ATC FINALLY CALLED US BACK. WE DID NOT HAVE CLRNC TO DSND. WE DSNDED THROUGH A HOLDING PATTERN, REQUIRING SEVERAL ACFT TO COMMENCE EVASIVE ACTION AS DIRECTED BY FRENCH ATC. OUR PERCEPTION WAS THAT WE WERE CLRED FOR THE INITIAL ARR. HAD WE BEEN IN COM AT THIS CRITICAL TIME CLARIFICATION COULD HAVE BEEN OBTAINED. COME TO FIND OUT AFTER DISCUSSION WITH FRENCH ATC, THE COMMERCIAL STAR IS WRONG AND HAS BEEN FOR OVER 1 YR. CONTRIBUTING FACTORS: 1) FLYING THROUGH THE NIGHT FOR 6 1/2 HRS AND BEING TIRED. 2) POOR COMS DUE TO LANGUAGE DIFFERENCES -- VERY DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND. 3) RESERVE CAPT FLYING ONCE A MONTH -- HAD NOT BEEN TO PARIS IN 6 MONTHS. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THIS FLC WAS FLYING A STAR INTO PARIS WHEN THEY LOST RADIO CONTACT WITH TRACON. THEY FOLLOWED WHAT WAS WRITTEN ON THE STAR CHART AND DSNDED TO THE LOWEST ALT FOR THEIR LOCATION, AS WRITTEN ON THE CHART. THEY WERE CERTAIN IT WAS OK TO DSND TO FL60, BUT THEY WERE GIVEN CLB INSTRUCTIONS BACK TO FL80 WHEN RADIO CONTACT WAS ESTABLISHED. THEY WERE ALSO GIVEN DIFFERENT HDGS AS THEY HAD DSNDED THROUGH A HOLDING PATTERN. UPON ARRIVING AT THE GATE IN PARIS, A CTLR MET THE FLC AND TOLD THEM THE FOLLOWING: IF THEY HAD RADIO RECEIVING PROBS, THEY WERE TO HOLD UNTIL THEIR ETA BEFORE CONTINUING ANY FARTHER. THIS HOLD WOULD HAVE BEEN AT EPERNON (EPR). ALTHOUGH THESE INSTRUCTIONS ARE NOT WRITTEN ON THE STAR CHART, THE CTLR STATES THE FLC CHARTS ARE WRONG AND THEY DON'T LIKE THE CHARTS THAT ARE PUBLISHED FOR THE AIRLINE. THEY WERE TO HAVE HELD AT FL100 UNTIL THE ETA, ALTHOUGH NONE OF THIS IS INDICATED BY THE STAR CHART. CTLR ALSO STATED ANOTHER ACR HAD DONE THE SAME THING RECENTLY AND OTHER INCIDENTS LIKE THAT HAVE OCCURRED. FLC HAS SUGGESTED THE STAR CHART BE AMENDED TO SAY, 'EXPECT FL80' INSTEAD OF DSND TO A LOWER ALT. THEY FEEL THEY WOULD NOT HAVE DSNDED AT ALL WITH LOSS OF RADIO CONTACT IF THE CHART HAD STATED, 'EXPECT DSCNT TO FL60.' THERE WAS A GENERAL STRIKE GOING ON IN FRANCE, THE ATC WAS BEING OPERATED BY SUPERVISORY PERSONNEL. SECOND: WHAT WAS LEARNED FROM THE APCH CHART PUBLISHERS -- ALL THE CHARTS FOR EUROPE ARE PRINTED AND MAINTAINED IN A GERMAN CITY. THE MOST CURRENT STAR CHART TODAY IS THE SAME AS WAS DATED WHEN THIS INCIDENT HAPPEND. THE FLC WAS USING AN UP-TO-DATE STAR CHART. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 322846: THE CTLR THEN INFORMED US WE WERE NEVER TO LEAVE FL100! AFTER LNDG, ONE OF THE CTLRS MET US AND TOLD US THAT WHEN HOLDINGS ARE IN PROGRESS AT EPR VOR THE DSND INSTRUCTIONS ON STAR 10-2B ARE NO LONGER VALID.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.