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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 325901 |
Time | |
Date | 199601 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : pdx |
State Reference | OR |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff ground : preflight ground other : taxi |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 6500 flight time type : 3000 |
ASRS Report | 325901 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 13200 flight time type : 6000 |
ASRS Report | 326057 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : far non adherence other |
Independent Detector | other other : unspecified |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
It was snowing lightly and melting on contact. We had flown through ice on approach so we put type 1 fluid on. The FAA was observing. We checked the wings, etc, and they were clear. We taxied out and were cleared for takeoff quickly. The FAA observer questioned our holdover time (15 mins). We believed to be within the time and therefore we didn't walk back and do a post check. We could see from the cockpit windows the wings were clear. Planes next to us were leaving without anti-icing because it was 34 degrees. It had been 40 degrees 1/2 hour prior and the snow was melting on contact. Supplemental information from acn 326057: since it was first deicing of the winter, the first officer and I had the manual with all the deicing procedures and holdover times, which we reviewed. On our return to pdx, the FAA questioned our procedure and asked why we didn't do a pretkof contamination check. I explained we hadn't exceeded the holdover time. He claims we did. First, I would say to write down the time of start of deicing. When you're tired (we're flying 95 hours per month, regularly) you add wrong or forget. Second, the aci is a crew member in the jumpseat. He should have said something about exceeding the time before we took off.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: THE FLC OF AN MLG DEICED PRIOR TO DEP IN A SNOWSTORM, BUT DID NOT PERFORM A PRE-TKOF CONTAMINATION CHK. THE ACI WHO WAS OBSERVING FROM THE JUMPSEAT LATER STATED THAT THE FLC EXCEEDED THE HOLDOVER TIME WHICH REQUIRED A CONTAMINATION CHK.
Narrative: IT WAS SNOWING LIGHTLY AND MELTING ON CONTACT. WE HAD FLOWN THROUGH ICE ON APCH SO WE PUT TYPE 1 FLUID ON. THE FAA WAS OBSERVING. WE CHKED THE WINGS, ETC, AND THEY WERE CLR. WE TAXIED OUT AND WERE CLRED FOR TKOF QUICKLY. THE FAA OBSERVER QUESTIONED OUR HOLDOVER TIME (15 MINS). WE BELIEVED TO BE WITHIN THE TIME AND THEREFORE WE DIDN'T WALK BACK AND DO A POST CHK. WE COULD SEE FROM THE COCKPIT WINDOWS THE WINGS WERE CLR. PLANES NEXT TO US WERE LEAVING WITHOUT ANTI-ICING BECAUSE IT WAS 34 DEGS. IT HAD BEEN 40 DEGS 1/2 HR PRIOR AND THE SNOW WAS MELTING ON CONTACT. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 326057: SINCE IT WAS FIRST DEICING OF THE WINTER, THE FO AND I HAD THE MANUAL WITH ALL THE DEICING PROCS AND HOLDOVER TIMES, WHICH WE REVIEWED. ON OUR RETURN TO PDX, THE FAA QUESTIONED OUR PROC AND ASKED WHY WE DIDN'T DO A PRETKOF CONTAMINATION CHK. I EXPLAINED WE HADN'T EXCEEDED THE HOLDOVER TIME. HE CLAIMS WE DID. FIRST, I WOULD SAY TO WRITE DOWN THE TIME OF START OF DEICING. WHEN YOU'RE TIRED (WE'RE FLYING 95 HRS PER MONTH, REGULARLY) YOU ADD WRONG OR FORGET. SECOND, THE ACI IS A CREW MEMBER IN THE JUMPSEAT. HE SHOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT EXCEEDING THE TIME BEFORE WE TOOK OFF.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.