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Reporter taxied too close to runway he was told to hold short of.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 328013 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199602 |
| Day | Tue |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : cle |
| State Reference | OH |
| Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | ground other : taxi |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 188 flight time total : 16641 flight time type : 8551 |
| ASRS Report | 328013 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 155 flight time total : 10225 flight time type : 5240 |
| ASRS Report | 328409 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | incursion : runway other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other other |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
| Airport | other physical facility |
Narrative:
Air carrier X was instructed to 'taxi to runway 23R via taxiway J, taxi onto runway 28 and hold short of runway 23L.' this is a very confusing area even in daylight clear conditions. The first officer and I briefed the taxi route knowing we had to be extra alert, as it was dark and txwys were covered with snow. We taxied onto runway 28 and held short of runway 23L. The tower told an aircraft on final to runway 23L to 'go around.' then tower said, 'air carrier X you were to hold short of runway 23L, oh! You are holding short.' the first officer replied, 'we are holding short of runway 23L.' the tower then said, 'cross runway 23L, cleared for takeoff runway 23R.' there were no hold short signs or lights that we could see. Our question is, were we too close to runway 23L? This is a very confusing area and needs to have a hold short sign with flashing lights, which I feel would greatly enhance safety. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter stated he was familiar with the airport. When given the taxi clearance to 'taxi to runway 23R via taxiway J and runway 28, hold short of runway 23L on runway 28,' the reporter discussed the clearance alerting the first officer of the unusual requirements of the clearance. Even so, with the night and snow and no hold short line he held short too close to the runway 23L. His company discussed with the tower the pros and cons of using runway 28 to hold short of runway 23L and concluded that would not be an acceptable clearance any more.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: RPTR TAXIED TOO CLOSE TO RWY HE WAS TOLD TO HOLD SHORT OF.
Narrative: ACR X WAS INSTRUCTED TO 'TAXI TO RWY 23R VIA TXWY J, TAXI ONTO RWY 28 AND HOLD SHORT OF RWY 23L.' THIS IS A VERY CONFUSING AREA EVEN IN DAYLIGHT CLR CONDITIONS. THE FO AND I BRIEFED THE TAXI RTE KNOWING WE HAD TO BE EXTRA ALERT, AS IT WAS DARK AND TXWYS WERE COVERED WITH SNOW. WE TAXIED ONTO RWY 28 AND HELD SHORT OF RWY 23L. THE TWR TOLD AN ACFT ON FINAL TO RWY 23L TO 'GAR.' THEN TWR SAID, 'ACR X YOU WERE TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 23L, OH! YOU ARE HOLDING SHORT.' THE FO REPLIED, 'WE ARE HOLDING SHORT OF RWY 23L.' THE TWR THEN SAID, 'CROSS RWY 23L, CLRED FOR TKOF RWY 23R.' THERE WERE NO HOLD SHORT SIGNS OR LIGHTS THAT WE COULD SEE. OUR QUESTION IS, WERE WE TOO CLOSE TO RWY 23L? THIS IS A VERY CONFUSING AREA AND NEEDS TO HAVE A HOLD SHORT SIGN WITH FLASHING LIGHTS, WHICH I FEEL WOULD GREATLY ENHANCE SAFETY. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE RPTR STATED HE WAS FAMILIAR WITH THE ARPT. WHEN GIVEN THE TAXI CLRNC TO 'TAXI TO RWY 23R VIA TXWY J AND RWY 28, HOLD SHORT OF RWY 23L ON RWY 28,' THE RPTR DISCUSSED THE CLRNC ALERTING THE FO OF THE UNUSUAL REQUIREMENTS OF THE CLRNC. EVEN SO, WITH THE NIGHT AND SNOW AND NO HOLD SHORT LINE HE HELD SHORT TOO CLOSE TO THE RWY 23L. HIS COMPANY DISCUSSED WITH THE TWR THE PROS AND CONS OF USING RWY 28 TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 23L AND CONCLUDED THAT WOULD NOT BE AN ACCEPTABLE CLRNC ANY MORE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.