37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 329460 |
Time | |
Date | 199603 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : jfk |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 2000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90 |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Light Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 11050 flight time type : 1100 |
ASRS Report | 329460 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
On approach, at 2000 ft, 6 mi in trail of a B757. Controller assigned us 1500 ft which would put us behind and below a B757. I refused the clearance to descend to 1500 ft. Controller immediately broke us off the approach to punish us. He vectored us around for another approach, executed and landed without incident. Controller should be re-educated on FAA administrator directives on wake turbulence separation with a B757. Controller also refused to give initials on radio. Upon landing at jfk, tower gave us a ny TRACON phone number to call to inquire/acquire details of incident. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter stated he was the pilot who was rolled 110 degrees by a B767's wake vortices going into jfk a while back. We did a structured callback with him. The supervisor told the reporter the N90 controllers do not give initials to requesting pilots. The reporter believes the controller is required to. The tone of voice and the timing made the reporter certain he was being 'punished' for not complying with the controller's altitude assignment. The reporter said the supervisor denied that the controller was 'punishing' the reporter pilot. The reporter feels the winds were such that the wake encounter would be likely if he had complied with the controller's altitude assignment. The reporter suggested the controllers are pushing too hard. In so doing they are violating FAA separation procedures and endangering the public. As an example, he suggested that a person listen on the radio with a stop watch when jfk is in runways 04 or 22 confign and time the intervals in departing commuters behind heavies. There is not the required time separation.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: THE RPTR REFUSED AN ASSIGNED ALT 500 FT BELOW AND 6 MI BEHIND A B757 ON APCH TO JFK. THE RPTR WAS PROMPTLY BROKEN OFF THE APCH FOR WHAT THE RPTR APPRAISES AS NY TRACON PUNITIVE ACTION.
Narrative: ON APCH, AT 2000 FT, 6 MI IN TRAIL OF A B757. CTLR ASSIGNED US 1500 FT WHICH WOULD PUT US BEHIND AND BELOW A B757. I REFUSED THE CLRNC TO DSND TO 1500 FT. CTLR IMMEDIATELY BROKE US OFF THE APCH TO PUNISH US. HE VECTORED US AROUND FOR ANOTHER APCH, EXECUTED AND LANDED WITHOUT INCIDENT. CTLR SHOULD BE RE-EDUCATED ON FAA ADMINISTRATOR DIRECTIVES ON WAKE TURB SEPARATION WITH A B757. CTLR ALSO REFUSED TO GIVE INITIALS ON RADIO. UPON LNDG AT JFK, TWR GAVE US A NY TRACON PHONE NUMBER TO CALL TO INQUIRE/ACQUIRE DETAILS OF INCIDENT. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE RPTR STATED HE WAS THE PLT WHO WAS ROLLED 110 DEGS BY A B767'S WAKE VORTICES GOING INTO JFK A WHILE BACK. WE DID A STRUCTURED CALLBACK WITH HIM. THE SUPVR TOLD THE RPTR THE N90 CTLRS DO NOT GIVE INITIALS TO REQUESTING PLTS. THE RPTR BELIEVES THE CTLR IS REQUIRED TO. THE TONE OF VOICE AND THE TIMING MADE THE RPTR CERTAIN HE WAS BEING 'PUNISHED' FOR NOT COMPLYING WITH THE CTLR'S ALT ASSIGNMENT. THE RPTR SAID THE SUPVR DENIED THAT THE CTLR WAS 'PUNISHING' THE RPTR PLT. THE RPTR FEELS THE WINDS WERE SUCH THAT THE WAKE ENCOUNTER WOULD BE LIKELY IF HE HAD COMPLIED WITH THE CTLR'S ALT ASSIGNMENT. THE RPTR SUGGESTED THE CTLRS ARE PUSHING TOO HARD. IN SO DOING THEY ARE VIOLATING FAA SEPARATION PROCS AND ENDANGERING THE PUBLIC. AS AN EXAMPLE, HE SUGGESTED THAT A PERSON LISTEN ON THE RADIO WITH A STOP WATCH WHEN JFK IS IN RWYS 04 OR 22 CONFIGN AND TIME THE INTERVALS IN DEPARTING COMMUTERS BEHIND HEAVIES. THERE IS NOT THE REQUIRED TIME SEPARATION.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.