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Flight crew of an medium large transport overshot final during a visual approach when attempting to maintain visual separation with traffic going to a parallel runway and with traffic to follow.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 334117 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199604 |
| Day | Mon |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : lax |
| State Reference | CA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 4000 msl bound upper : 4000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | Marginal |
| Light | Dusk |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : lax |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B747 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | other other : other pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 50 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 50 |
| ASRS Report | 334117 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | non adherence : clearance other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course other |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 1000 vertical : 0 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Cleared for visual approach to follow very low relative to us B747 to runway 24R lax. Upon confirmation of visual on B747, we started right base to follow aircraft. Upon starting dogleg to final, both pilots suddenly were surprised to see B747 appear to fill windscreen. I asked approach to verify aircraft we saw was on 25 complex. Approach slow to respond. We rolled wing level to avoid close on aircraft. Approach stated cleared visual to follow B747. We overshot runway 24R while trying to confirm aircraft identify, etc. Approach asked for right turn back on course to runway 24R which we were in process of doing, again cleared visual runway 24R operations normal. Approach must relay to visual aircraft location/type of parallel aircraft at lax -- B747 DC10 -- aircraft are too large to not inform crews of relative position, while conducting parallel approachs. Large aircraft give illusions of closeness which, under low lighting conditions, can cause confusion as to relative position when turning base and then final with direct head on 'apparent' conflicts to eventually parallel aircraft. No violations were incurred, but this has happened before!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLC OF AN MLG OVERSHOT FINAL DURING A VISUAL APCH WHEN ATTEMPTING TO MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION WITH TFC GOING TO A PARALLEL RWY AND WITH TFC TO FOLLOW.
Narrative: CLRED FOR VISUAL APCH TO FOLLOW VERY LOW RELATIVE TO US B747 TO RWY 24R LAX. UPON CONFIRMATION OF VISUAL ON B747, WE STARTED R BASE TO FOLLOW ACFT. UPON STARTING DOGLEG TO FINAL, BOTH PLTS SUDDENLY WERE SURPRISED TO SEE B747 APPEAR TO FILL WINDSCREEN. I ASKED APCH TO VERIFY ACFT WE SAW WAS ON 25 COMPLEX. APCH SLOW TO RESPOND. WE ROLLED WING LEVEL TO AVOID CLOSE ON ACFT. APCH STATED CLRED VISUAL TO FOLLOW B747. WE OVERSHOT RWY 24R WHILE TRYING TO CONFIRM ACFT IDENT, ETC. APCH ASKED FOR R TURN BACK ON COURSE TO RWY 24R WHICH WE WERE IN PROCESS OF DOING, AGAIN CLRED VISUAL RWY 24R OPS NORMAL. APCH MUST RELAY TO VISUAL ACFT LOCATION/TYPE OF PARALLEL ACFT AT LAX -- B747 DC10 -- ACFT ARE TOO LARGE TO NOT INFORM CREWS OF RELATIVE POS, WHILE CONDUCTING PARALLEL APCHS. LARGE ACFT GIVE ILLUSIONS OF CLOSENESS WHICH, UNDER LOW LIGHTING CONDITIONS, CAN CAUSE CONFUSION AS TO RELATIVE POS WHEN TURNING BASE AND THEN FINAL WITH DIRECT HEAD ON 'APPARENT' CONFLICTS TO EVENTUALLY PARALLEL ACFT. NO VIOLATIONS WERE INCURRED, BUT THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.