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Flight engineer report regarding altitude deviation when captain descends without clearance and TCASII RA results.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 336597 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199605 |
| Day | Tue |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : ilm |
| State Reference | NC |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 33000 msl bound upper : 35500 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zjx tower : oma |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude descent other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | MD-80 Series (DC-9-80) Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | cruise other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : second officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 3000 |
| ASRS Report | 336597 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 7000 flight time type : 3000 |
| ASRS Report | 335871 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took evasive action other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 30000 vertical : 1000 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We were operating flight from NAS to lga. This crew had been together most of the month. The captain and first officer were not communicating very well. Our flight was at FL330 with a climb to FL370 at ilm. We were cruising at FL330 VFR with light continuous chop. Light continuous was reported from FL280 through FL390. The captain went back to use the restroom. While he was out of cockpit ZJX asked us to climb to FL370 or slow to mach .74. After checking the buffet charts I decided we were legal and safe to climb to FL370. A sbound MD80 flight had reported a thin band of moderate turbulence at FL350 ahead. We started our climb to FL370 when cleared by ATC. The captain reentered the cockpit as we were climbing through FL350. He inquired as to why we were climbing. We stated our 2 options. When he got in his seat, he disconnected the autoplt and closed the throttles and pushed the nose over. We were around FL355. The first officer immediately called ATC and stated the captain's desire to descend. ATC said 'FL330 is not available.' the captain continued his descent maneuver. The first officer again stated 'the captain wants to descend to FL330 due to bumps.' the response was the same. At this time we received a TA on the TCASII sbound traffic at FL350. We continued descending. The first officer said to captain we did not have clearance. ZJX finally said 'maintain FL330, turn left to 340 degrees, maintain mach .74.' we were approximately at FL340 when we received clearance. After several mins ZJX turned us over to ZDC. The problem obviously starts with the captain's decision to descend without clearance. I feel that the problem was perpetuated by the fact that the captain and first officer were not displaying good CRM with each other. The captain wanted to make the decision and that was final. Supplemental information from acn 335871: I believe that this incident can be partially blamed on tension between the crew members. The captain came from another airline, I did not. The captain has his own techniques, I choose to follow the airline's operating manual. This tension had been at a high level the entire month. I believe that the captain's decision to descend to FL330 was partially just to override my acceptance of FL370.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FE RPT REGARDING ALTDEV WHEN CAPT DSNDS WITHOUT CLRNC AND TCASII RA RESULTS.
Narrative: WE WERE OPERATING FLT FROM NAS TO LGA. THIS CREW HAD BEEN TOGETHER MOST OF THE MONTH. THE CAPT AND FO WERE NOT COMMUNICATING VERY WELL. OUR FLT WAS AT FL330 WITH A CLB TO FL370 AT ILM. WE WERE CRUISING AT FL330 VFR WITH LIGHT CONTINUOUS CHOP. LIGHT CONTINUOUS WAS RPTED FROM FL280 THROUGH FL390. THE CAPT WENT BACK TO USE THE RESTROOM. WHILE HE WAS OUT OF COCKPIT ZJX ASKED US TO CLB TO FL370 OR SLOW TO MACH .74. AFTER CHKING THE BUFFET CHARTS I DECIDED WE WERE LEGAL AND SAFE TO CLB TO FL370. A SBOUND MD80 FLT HAD RPTED A THIN BAND OF MODERATE TURB AT FL350 AHEAD. WE STARTED OUR CLB TO FL370 WHEN CLRED BY ATC. THE CAPT REENTERED THE COCKPIT AS WE WERE CLBING THROUGH FL350. HE INQUIRED AS TO WHY WE WERE CLBING. WE STATED OUR 2 OPTIONS. WHEN HE GOT IN HIS SEAT, HE DISCONNECTED THE AUTOPLT AND CLOSED THE THROTTLES AND PUSHED THE NOSE OVER. WE WERE AROUND FL355. THE FO IMMEDIATELY CALLED ATC AND STATED THE CAPT'S DESIRE TO DSND. ATC SAID 'FL330 IS NOT AVAILABLE.' THE CAPT CONTINUED HIS DSCNT MANEUVER. THE FO AGAIN STATED 'THE CAPT WANTS TO DSND TO FL330 DUE TO BUMPS.' THE RESPONSE WAS THE SAME. AT THIS TIME WE RECEIVED A TA ON THE TCASII SBOUND TFC AT FL350. WE CONTINUED DSNDING. THE FO SAID TO CAPT WE DID NOT HAVE CLRNC. ZJX FINALLY SAID 'MAINTAIN FL330, TURN L TO 340 DEGS, MAINTAIN MACH .74.' WE WERE APPROX AT FL340 WHEN WE RECEIVED CLRNC. AFTER SEVERAL MINS ZJX TURNED US OVER TO ZDC. THE PROB OBVIOUSLY STARTS WITH THE CAPT'S DECISION TO DSND WITHOUT CLRNC. I FEEL THAT THE PROB WAS PERPETUATED BY THE FACT THAT THE CAPT AND FO WERE NOT DISPLAYING GOOD CRM WITH EACH OTHER. THE CAPT WANTED TO MAKE THE DECISION AND THAT WAS FINAL. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 335871: I BELIEVE THAT THIS INCIDENT CAN BE PARTIALLY BLAMED ON TENSION BTWN THE CREW MEMBERS. THE CAPT CAME FROM ANOTHER AIRLINE, I DID NOT. THE CAPT HAS HIS OWN TECHNIQUES, I CHOOSE TO FOLLOW THE AIRLINE'S OPERATING MANUAL. THIS TENSION HAD BEEN AT A HIGH LEVEL THE ENTIRE MONTH. I BELIEVE THAT THE CAPT'S DECISION TO DSND TO FL330 WAS PARTIALLY JUST TO OVERRIDE MY ACCEPTANCE OF FL370.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.