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37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
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Crossing restr not met due to miscom between ATC and flight crew. Flight crew programmed crossing at 5 mi and, after ATC asked if they were descending yet, flight crew thought perhaps the clearance had been to cross at 5 mi. Flight crew asked for clarification after the fact, but they were changed to approach control and didn't receive an answer. Reporter says they were tired and could have misheard the distance.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 337410 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199605 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : vwv |
| State Reference | OH |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 11000 msl bound upper : 11000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Fokker 100 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | descent other |
| Route In Use | enroute airway : zob |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 13000 flight time type : 3500 |
| ASRS Report | 337410 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 160 flight time total : 5500 flight time type : 1500 |
| ASRS Report | 337511 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Received clearance to cross 25 mi southeast of vwv at 11000 ft. First officer programmed 5 mi southeast of vwv at 11000 ft. Captain never caught the difference until the controller asked if we were in our descent and handed us off to approach control. We were confused about who was right about the crossing restr and were unable to verify with center. I would have to credit this to being tired at the end of a long day, and I thought he had it right, and he thought he did too! The controller never said anything more about the crossing restr. To us, we can only attribute this to a lack of effective communication between 2 people who are at arms length. We practice good communication skills all of the time, but when you get tired, those skills drop off -- that's all I can think of!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: XING RESTR NOT MET DUE TO MISCOM BTWN ATC AND FLC. FLC PROGRAMMED XING AT 5 MI AND, AFTER ATC ASKED IF THEY WERE DSNDING YET, FLC THOUGHT PERHAPS THE CLRNC HAD BEEN TO CROSS AT 5 MI. FLC ASKED FOR CLARIFICATION AFTER THE FACT, BUT THEY WERE CHANGED TO APCH CTL AND DIDN'T RECEIVE AN ANSWER. RPTR SAYS THEY WERE TIRED AND COULD HAVE MISHEARD THE DISTANCE.
Narrative: RECEIVED CLRNC TO CROSS 25 MI SE OF VWV AT 11000 FT. FO PROGRAMMED 5 MI SE OF VWV AT 11000 FT. CAPT NEVER CAUGHT THE DIFFERENCE UNTIL THE CTLR ASKED IF WE WERE IN OUR DSCNT AND HANDED US OFF TO APCH CTL. WE WERE CONFUSED ABOUT WHO WAS RIGHT ABOUT THE XING RESTR AND WERE UNABLE TO VERIFY WITH CTR. I WOULD HAVE TO CREDIT THIS TO BEING TIRED AT THE END OF A LONG DAY, AND I THOUGHT HE HAD IT RIGHT, AND HE THOUGHT HE DID TOO! THE CTLR NEVER SAID ANYTHING MORE ABOUT THE XING RESTR. TO US, WE CAN ONLY ATTRIBUTE THIS TO A LACK OF EFFECTIVE COM BTWN 2 PEOPLE WHO ARE AT ARMS LENGTH. WE PRACTICE GOOD COM SKILLS ALL OF THE TIME, BUT WHEN YOU GET TIRED, THOSE SKILLS DROP OFF -- THAT'S ALL I CAN THINK OF!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.