Lax ATCT reporter claims that the TRACON altitude restr light was activated too late to change the a...

Attributes
ACN	347481
Time
Date	199609
Day	Tue
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	airport : lax
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 2500
Environment
Flight Conditions	IMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : lax tower : lax
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	climbout : takeoff climbout : initial
Route In Use	departure other departure sid : sid
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Operator	general aviation : personal
Make Model Name	Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 91
Flight Phase	cruise other
Flight Plan	VFR
Person 1
Affiliation	government : faa
Function	controller : ground
Qualification	controller : radar
Experience	controller radar : 8
ASRS Report	347481
Person 2
Affiliation	government : faa
Function	controller : local
Qualification	controller : radar
Events
Anomaly	conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other controllera
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance other
Consequence	faa : investigated
Miss Distance	horizontal : 3000 vertical : 300
Supplementary
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Operational Error
Situations
ATC Facility	procedure or policy : unspecified

Narrative:

This is just 1 example of a major problem being ignored in the FAA. The ZLA control tower is equipped with a 'restrict light.' the TRACON turns the light on when they are running VFR aircraft below 3500 ft along the shoreline. Tower controllers then issue 2000 ft to all departures. When the light is off, departures are issued 3000 ft. On many occasions the TRACON fails to turn the light on in a timely manner and aircraft nearing the shoreline with the 3000 ft restr must stop climbing and level off quickly. Also, the lax tower management requires the 3000 ft altitude be issued with the takeoff clearance. On numerous occasions the 3000 ft has been issued and the aircraft is rolling when the 'restrict light' is activated, and the aircraft must be reissued 2000 ft. In the incident on the front, the aircraft was issued 3000 ft and cleared for takeoff. As the aircraft was rolling the 'restrict light' was turned on. When the aircraft was safely airborne the controller attempted to reissue 2000 ft but the aircraft had already switched to departure frequency on their own. By the time the aircraft checked in on departure frequency, the incident had occurred. This incident resulted in the decertification of 2 fpl's at los angeles. Since this incident an FAA operational assessment team has visited lax tower and lax sector of socal TRACON and recommended the 'restrict light' be removed and 1 standard altitude to all departures. Unfortunately lax tower is in the middle between TRACON and air traffic area. TRACON insists VFR inbounds to smo and other VFR traffic must be at 2500 ft along the shoreline. While the air traffic area insists the new generation aircraft need higher altitudes to eliminate the autothrottles from coming back soon after departure and scaring the passenger. In the past 8 yrs, 10 operrors at lax tower have been caused by this 'restrict light.'

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: LAX ATCT RPTR CLAIMS THAT THE TRACON ALT RESTR LIGHT WAS ACTIVATED TOO LATE TO CHANGE THE ALT OF A DEP FROM LAX WBOUND. ACR CHANGED TO DEP CTL BEFORE LCL CTLR COULD REISSUE 2000 FT. CONFLICTING TFC WAS ON THE VFR SHORELINE RTE AT 2500 FT.

Narrative: THIS IS JUST 1 EXAMPLE OF A MAJOR PROB BEING IGNORED IN THE FAA. THE ZLA CTL TWR IS EQUIPPED WITH A 'RESTRICT LIGHT.' THE TRACON TURNS THE LIGHT ON WHEN THEY ARE RUNNING VFR ACFT BELOW 3500 FT ALONG THE SHORELINE. TWR CTLRS THEN ISSUE 2000 FT TO ALL DEPS. WHEN THE LIGHT IS OFF, DEPS ARE ISSUED 3000 FT. ON MANY OCCASIONS THE TRACON FAILS TO TURN THE LIGHT ON IN A TIMELY MANNER AND ACFT NEARING THE SHORELINE WITH THE 3000 FT RESTR MUST STOP CLBING AND LEVEL OFF QUICKLY. ALSO, THE LAX TWR MGMNT REQUIRES THE 3000 FT ALT BE ISSUED WITH THE TKOF CLRNC. ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS THE 3000 FT HAS BEEN ISSUED AND THE ACFT IS ROLLING WHEN THE 'RESTRICT LIGHT' IS ACTIVATED, AND THE ACFT MUST BE REISSUED 2000 FT. IN THE INCIDENT ON THE FRONT, THE ACFT WAS ISSUED 3000 FT AND CLRED FOR TKOF. AS THE ACFT WAS ROLLING THE 'RESTRICT LIGHT' WAS TURNED ON. WHEN THE ACFT WAS SAFELY AIRBORNE THE CTLR ATTEMPTED TO REISSUE 2000 FT BUT THE ACFT HAD ALREADY SWITCHED TO DEP FREQ ON THEIR OWN. BY THE TIME THE ACFT CHKED IN ON DEP FREQ, THE INCIDENT HAD OCCURRED. THIS INCIDENT RESULTED IN THE DECERTIFICATION OF 2 FPL'S AT LOS ANGELES. SINCE THIS INCIDENT AN FAA OPERATIONAL ASSESSMENT TEAM HAS VISITED LAX TWR AND LAX SECTOR OF SOCAL TRACON AND RECOMMENDED THE 'RESTRICT LIGHT' BE REMOVED AND 1 STANDARD ALT TO ALL DEPS. UNFORTUNATELY LAX TWR IS IN THE MIDDLE BTWN TRACON AND ATA. TRACON INSISTS VFR INBOUNDS TO SMO AND OTHER VFR TFC MUST BE AT 2500 FT ALONG THE SHORELINE. WHILE THE ATA INSISTS THE NEW GENERATION ACFT NEED HIGHER ALTS TO ELIMINATE THE AUTOTHROTTLES FROM COMING BACK SOON AFTER DEP AND SCARING THE PAX. IN THE PAST 8 YRS, 10 OPERRORS AT LAX TWR HAVE BEEN CAUSED BY THIS 'RESTRICT LIGHT.'

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

Lax ATCT reporter claims that the TRACON altitude restr light was activated too late to change the altitude of a departure from lax wbound. Air carrier changed to departure control before local controller could reissue 2000 ft. Conflicting traffic was on the VFR shoreline route at 2500 ft.