A commuter flight crew overshot the final approach course for runway 24R and encroached on the runway 25L final. The reporter was instructed to follow another aircraft for the visual approach to runway 24R.

Home

Browse by month

Random

Latest

About

Contact

Attributes
ACN	347580
Time
Date	199609
Day	Sun
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	atc facility : ioss airport : lax
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl bound lower : 2500 msl bound upper : 2500
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Dusk
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : lax tower : lax
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Commercial Fixed Wing
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Route In Use	approach : visual
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	A320
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Route In Use	approach : visual
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 130 flight time total : 2100 flight time type : 300
ASRS Report	347580
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Events
Anomaly	non adherence : clearance non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation
Independent Detector	other controllera other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other
Situations
ATC Facility	procedure or policy : unspecified
Airport	procedure or policy : unspecified

Narrative:

Told to follow A320 and cleared for the visual approach with only aircraft, not airport in sight. Also given 180 degree heading to intercept. While trying to keep A320 in sight, aircraft flew through localizer and encroached on runway 25L approach course slightly. No conflict occurred. This routinely happens at lax where controllers clear aircraft for visual approachs, then add restrs. These instances are particularly hard when visibility is low and at sunset (trying to keep aircraft in sight as well as trying to locate airport, maintain good wake turbulence separation). Conditions warranted vectors to the final for an ILS since we saw airport on a 4 mi final. Lax puts too many aircraft with too little space in order to keep large numbers of arrs. In addition, lax appears to keep jet aircraft higher on approach thus making it harder for t- propeller aircraft to avoid wake and still maintain our own stabilized approach criteria.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A COMMUTER FLC OVERSHOT THE FINAL APCH COURSE FOR RWY 24R AND ENCROACHED ON THE RWY 25L FINAL. THE RPTR WAS INSTRUCTED TO FOLLOW ANOTHER ACFT FOR THE VISUAL APCH TO RWY 24R.

Narrative: TOLD TO FOLLOW A320 AND CLRED FOR THE VISUAL APCH WITH ONLY ACFT, NOT ARPT IN SIGHT. ALSO GIVEN 180 DEG HDG TO INTERCEPT. WHILE TRYING TO KEEP A320 IN SIGHT, ACFT FLEW THROUGH LOC AND ENCROACHED ON RWY 25L APCH COURSE SLIGHTLY. NO CONFLICT OCCURRED. THIS ROUTINELY HAPPENS AT LAX WHERE CTLRS CLR ACFT FOR VISUAL APCHS, THEN ADD RESTRS. THESE INSTANCES ARE PARTICULARLY HARD WHEN VISIBILITY IS LOW AND AT SUNSET (TRYING TO KEEP ACFT IN SIGHT AS WELL AS TRYING TO LOCATE ARPT, MAINTAIN GOOD WAKE TURB SEPARATION). CONDITIONS WARRANTED VECTORS TO THE FINAL FOR AN ILS SINCE WE SAW ARPT ON A 4 MI FINAL. LAX PUTS TOO MANY ACFT WITH TOO LITTLE SPACE IN ORDER TO KEEP LARGE NUMBERS OF ARRS. IN ADDITION, LAX APPEARS TO KEEP JET ACFT HIGHER ON APCH THUS MAKING IT HARDER FOR T- PROP ACFT TO AVOID WAKE AND STILL MAINTAIN OUR OWN STABILIZED APCH CRITERIA.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.