37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 351483 |
Time | |
Date | 199610 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : den |
State Reference | CO |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 12600 msl bound upper : 13000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : den tower : gfk |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | cruise other descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 13500 flight time type : 6500 |
ASRS Report | 351483 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
Airport | other physical facility |
Narrative:
I was the PNF while descending into den over the northeast gates. The first officer was the PF and we had numerous PIREPS indicating possible moderate turbulence below FL230 going into den. We were given a clearance from FL350 to FL260. At this time I told the first officer I was going off frequency to listen to the other radio and pick up the ATIS. While I was picking up the ATIS, I left my ATC radio partially up to hear in case we received an altitude change. We did receive another altitude change to FL240, even though I was PNF the first officer reset altitude since I told him I was 'off air,' but since I heard clearance also we were able to comply with SOP as I confirmed his altitude selection. As my attention was on this new altitude call, I believe it was announced the same time the altimeter was being broadcast on the ATIS. When I finished the ATIS I had all the information, at least what I thought was the correct information. It turned out later that I had copied an incorrect altimeter possibly transposing numbers from the altitude clearance I heard. I copied 29.86 when in fact actual altimeter was 29.41. When approach control cleared us from FL190 to 13000 ft in the clearance he gave us a heading, new altitude, altimeter setting, turbulence reports, and icing reports, all in the same transmission. I missed the altimeter and figured that I would use the ATIS altimeter. This broke the double protection since I did not confirm the controller's ATIS. A contributing factor is the denver ATIS itself. The computer generator voice is very difficult to understand. I understand many pilots have complained about the quality of this voice in this WX reporting system. Even though the primary cause of this error was due to getting 2 important pieces of information at the very same time and believing I had correct information even though it turned out to be incorrect. The ATIS information is very difficult if not impossible to understand and that is numbers as well as phonetics. When leveled at 13000 ft, the controller handed us off to final approach control and asked us to confirm altitude and gave us correct altimeter setting. The altimeter error placed us 450 ft off. We climbed back up. TCASII did not indicate any conflicts nor did the controller indicate any. My first officer was not sure of my ATIS altimeter but did not advocate at the time, but only mentioned he was unsure after the controller gave us the corrected setting. In a 2 person crew we cannot always confirm an altitude before we vacate the altitude, but I will now always confirm altimeter settings with ATC or via ACARS ATIS.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLC SET WRONG ALTIMETER SETTING. RPTR CAPT HAD COPIED WRONG ALTIMETER FROM ATIS AND FLC FAILED TO CORRECT THE ERROR WHEN AGAIN THEY WERE GIVEN THE CURRENT ALTIMETER FROM APCH CTLR. RPTR SAYS THE DEN ATIS IS DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND.
Narrative: I WAS THE PNF WHILE DSNDING INTO DEN OVER THE NE GATES. THE FO WAS THE PF AND WE HAD NUMEROUS PIREPS INDICATING POSSIBLE MODERATE TURB BELOW FL230 GOING INTO DEN. WE WERE GIVEN A CLRNC FROM FL350 TO FL260. AT THIS TIME I TOLD THE FO I WAS GOING OFF FREQ TO LISTEN TO THE OTHER RADIO AND PICK UP THE ATIS. WHILE I WAS PICKING UP THE ATIS, I LEFT MY ATC RADIO PARTIALLY UP TO HEAR IN CASE WE RECEIVED AN ALT CHANGE. WE DID RECEIVE ANOTHER ALT CHANGE TO FL240, EVEN THOUGH I WAS PNF THE FO RESET ALT SINCE I TOLD HIM I WAS 'OFF AIR,' BUT SINCE I HEARD CLRNC ALSO WE WERE ABLE TO COMPLY WITH SOP AS I CONFIRMED HIS ALT SELECTION. AS MY ATTN WAS ON THIS NEW ALT CALL, I BELIEVE IT WAS ANNOUNCED THE SAME TIME THE ALTIMETER WAS BEING BROADCAST ON THE ATIS. WHEN I FINISHED THE ATIS I HAD ALL THE INFO, AT LEAST WHAT I THOUGHT WAS THE CORRECT INFO. IT TURNED OUT LATER THAT I HAD COPIED AN INCORRECT ALTIMETER POSSIBLY TRANSPOSING NUMBERS FROM THE ALT CLRNC I HEARD. I COPIED 29.86 WHEN IN FACT ACTUAL ALTIMETER WAS 29.41. WHEN APCH CTL CLRED US FROM FL190 TO 13000 FT IN THE CLRNC HE GAVE US A HDG, NEW ALT, ALTIMETER SETTING, TURB RPTS, AND ICING RPTS, ALL IN THE SAME XMISSION. I MISSED THE ALTIMETER AND FIGURED THAT I WOULD USE THE ATIS ALTIMETER. THIS BROKE THE DOUBLE PROTECTION SINCE I DID NOT CONFIRM THE CTLR'S ATIS. A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR IS THE DENVER ATIS ITSELF. THE COMPUTER GENERATOR VOICE IS VERY DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND. I UNDERSTAND MANY PLTS HAVE COMPLAINED ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THIS VOICE IN THIS WX RPTING SYS. EVEN THOUGH THE PRIMARY CAUSE OF THIS ERROR WAS DUE TO GETTING 2 IMPORTANT PIECES OF INFO AT THE VERY SAME TIME AND BELIEVING I HAD CORRECT INFO EVEN THOUGH IT TURNED OUT TO BE INCORRECT. THE ATIS INFO IS VERY DIFFICULT IF NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO UNDERSTAND AND THAT IS NUMBERS AS WELL AS PHONETICS. WHEN LEVELED AT 13000 FT, THE CTLR HANDED US OFF TO FINAL APCH CTL AND ASKED US TO CONFIRM ALT AND GAVE US CORRECT ALTIMETER SETTING. THE ALTIMETER ERROR PLACED US 450 FT OFF. WE CLBED BACK UP. TCASII DID NOT INDICATE ANY CONFLICTS NOR DID THE CTLR INDICATE ANY. MY FO WAS NOT SURE OF MY ATIS ALTIMETER BUT DID NOT ADVOCATE AT THE TIME, BUT ONLY MENTIONED HE WAS UNSURE AFTER THE CTLR GAVE US THE CORRECTED SETTING. IN A 2 PERSON CREW WE CANNOT ALWAYS CONFIRM AN ALT BEFORE WE VACATE THE ALT, BUT I WILL NOW ALWAYS CONFIRM ALTIMETER SETTINGS WITH ATC OR VIA ACARS ATIS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.