37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 353058 |
Time | |
Date | 199611 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : gva |
State Reference | FO |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 7000 msl bound upper : 13000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : initial climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure other departure sid : sid enroute airway : gva |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 8500 flight time type : 1500 |
ASRS Report | 353058 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 7500 flight time type : 600 |
ASRS Report | 353068 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure non adherence : far other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : insufficient time |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Aircraft |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Departing from lsgg, we were cleared the rocca 1B departure prior to takeoff from runway 23. During climb out we discovered that we were not going to make the crossing restr of D8 gva at or above 7000 ft MSL as required. The SID reads 'at D8 gva but not below 7000 ft.' there are no holding patterns or instructions as to what action to take if the crossing restr cannot be met, so we turned right and intercepted the 134 degree radial of pas VOR and continued climbing as rapidly as possible to meet the rest of the climb restrs as published. Realizing we were not going to make the D14 pas restr of FL120, we received instructions from geneva departure for a left turn back to pas VOR and continue climbing. The three of us discussed at length what had taken place during our departure/climb phase and agreed that we were correct in intercepting the 134 degree radial outbound from pas. Inattn to detail by myself on both the SID and in the performance capability of the aircraft started this chain of events. Also, the new SID, effective nov/xx/96, removed the depicted climbing instructions at the D8 gva if an aircraft is unable to meet the crossing restrs. The new SID is lacking any type of course or actions to take once the aircraft has reached the D8 gva fix and not reached the required altitude. In the future, if no instructions are given, I'll ask what to expect if the xings cannot be met as published or required.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AFTER TKOF AND INITIAL CLB FLC REALIZED THEY WOULD BE UNABLE TO MEET XING RESTR. NOT ONLY WERE THEY UNABLE TO MEET THE 7000 FT RESTR, BUT ALSO THE NEXT TWO. APPARENTLY ACFT WT AND PERFORMANCE WERE SUCH TO MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO CLB STEEP ENOUGH.
Narrative: DEPARTING FROM LSGG, WE WERE CLRED THE ROCCA 1B DEP PRIOR TO TKOF FROM RWY 23. DURING CLBOUT WE DISCOVERED THAT WE WERE NOT GOING TO MAKE THE XING RESTR OF D8 GVA AT OR ABOVE 7000 FT MSL AS REQUIRED. THE SID READS 'AT D8 GVA BUT NOT BELOW 7000 FT.' THERE ARE NO HOLDING PATTERNS OR INSTRUCTIONS AS TO WHAT ACTION TO TAKE IF THE XING RESTR CANNOT BE MET, SO WE TURNED R AND INTERCEPTED THE 134 DEG RADIAL OF PAS VOR AND CONTINUED CLBING AS RAPIDLY AS POSSIBLE TO MEET THE REST OF THE CLB RESTRS AS PUBLISHED. REALIZING WE WERE NOT GOING TO MAKE THE D14 PAS RESTR OF FL120, WE RECEIVED INSTRUCTIONS FROM GENEVA DEP FOR A L TURN BACK TO PAS VOR AND CONTINUE CLBING. THE THREE OF US DISCUSSED AT LENGTH WHAT HAD TAKEN PLACE DURING OUR DEP/CLB PHASE AND AGREED THAT WE WERE CORRECT IN INTERCEPTING THE 134 DEG RADIAL OUTBOUND FROM PAS. INATTN TO DETAIL BY MYSELF ON BOTH THE SID AND IN THE PERFORMANCE CAPABILITY OF THE ACFT STARTED THIS CHAIN OF EVENTS. ALSO, THE NEW SID, EFFECTIVE NOV/XX/96, REMOVED THE DEPICTED CLBING INSTRUCTIONS AT THE D8 GVA IF AN ACFT IS UNABLE TO MEET THE XING RESTRS. THE NEW SID IS LACKING ANY TYPE OF COURSE OR ACTIONS TO TAKE ONCE THE ACFT HAS REACHED THE D8 GVA FIX AND NOT REACHED THE REQUIRED ALT. IN THE FUTURE, IF NO INSTRUCTIONS ARE GIVEN, I'LL ASK WHAT TO EXPECT IF THE XINGS CANNOT BE MET AS PUBLISHED OR REQUIRED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.