37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 354870 |
Time | |
Date | 199612 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : stw |
State Reference | NJ |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 5000 msl bound upper : 6000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90 |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Learjet 35 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 135 |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 5700 flight time type : 2500 |
ASRS Report | 354870 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 211 flight time total : 2271 flight time type : 316 |
ASRS Report | 354669 |
Events | |
Anomaly | aircraft equipment problem : less severe altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | aircraft : equipment problem dissipated controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We were given descent to cross mugzy intersection at 6000 ft (copilot was flying). Shortly after, the controller stated we were to hold at mugzy as published, 6000 ft. Before our descent the controller asked if we were going to make mugzy at 6000 ft, and we said yes. Assuming there was something that didn't look right to the controller we started down out of FL190. We then started to check our navigation information and discovered that we were much closer to mugzy than we thought (approximately 18 DME). I then took control of the airplane and made a rapid descent to cross mugzy at 6000 ft. In the descent we experienced a momentary navigation/communication failure. We discovered the communication failure when we heard ATC yelling at us. In all of the confusion we passed the holding fix and evidently went to approximately 5500 ft. We then asked ATC for help in correcting our course. We got back on course and did not experience further difficulties. I think closer xchking of navigation information will help in the future. I also think that if ATC sees something that doesn't look like a good situation occurring (such as what we had experienced) they should include in their comments something to help verify the airplane's distance and altitude and not just, are you going to make it down. Supplemental information from acn 354669: I advised the captain that the DME did not appear to be correct. He immediately recycled the DME which now read 18 mi to stw.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LR35 CARGO FLT CLRED TO CROSS MUGZY 6000 FT. DME WAS GIVING PROBS AND CAPT RETUNED AND FOUND ONLY 18 DME FROM STW. CAPT TOOK THE ACFT AND EXPEDITED THE DSCNT. MOMENTARILY LOST COM WITH CTLR. WHEN COM MADE CTLR SAID 5 E OF MUGZY AND ONLY CLRED TO 6000 FT. HAD DSNDED TO 5000 FT. RETURNED TO 6000 FT AND CONTINUED THE APCH TO TEB.
Narrative: WE WERE GIVEN DSCNT TO CROSS MUGZY INTXN AT 6000 FT (COPLT WAS FLYING). SHORTLY AFTER, THE CTLR STATED WE WERE TO HOLD AT MUGZY AS PUBLISHED, 6000 FT. BEFORE OUR DSCNT THE CTLR ASKED IF WE WERE GOING TO MAKE MUGZY AT 6000 FT, AND WE SAID YES. ASSUMING THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T LOOK RIGHT TO THE CTLR WE STARTED DOWN OUT OF FL190. WE THEN STARTED TO CHK OUR NAV INFO AND DISCOVERED THAT WE WERE MUCH CLOSER TO MUGZY THAN WE THOUGHT (APPROX 18 DME). I THEN TOOK CTL OF THE AIRPLANE AND MADE A RAPID DSCNT TO CROSS MUGZY AT 6000 FT. IN THE DSCNT WE EXPERIENCED A MOMENTARY NAV/COM FAILURE. WE DISCOVERED THE COM FAILURE WHEN WE HEARD ATC YELLING AT US. IN ALL OF THE CONFUSION WE PASSED THE HOLDING FIX AND EVIDENTLY WENT TO APPROX 5500 FT. WE THEN ASKED ATC FOR HELP IN CORRECTING OUR COURSE. WE GOT BACK ON COURSE AND DID NOT EXPERIENCE FURTHER DIFFICULTIES. I THINK CLOSER XCHKING OF NAV INFO WILL HELP IN THE FUTURE. I ALSO THINK THAT IF ATC SEES SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE A GOOD SIT OCCURRING (SUCH AS WHAT WE HAD EXPERIENCED) THEY SHOULD INCLUDE IN THEIR COMMENTS SOMETHING TO HELP VERIFY THE AIRPLANE'S DISTANCE AND ALT AND NOT JUST, ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE IT DOWN. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 354669: I ADVISED THE CAPT THAT THE DME DID NOT APPEAR TO BE CORRECT. HE IMMEDIATELY RECYCLED THE DME WHICH NOW READ 18 MI TO STW.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.