Large transport just turned base leg for runway 24R at lax and had a conflict with a light aircraft. Reporter recommends that turns to base leg be given at 3000 ft MSL to allow a larger buffer between aircraft. Small aircraft was apparently in the class B without clearance.

Home

Browse by month

Random

Latest

About

Contact

Attributes
ACN	357088
Time
Date	199612
Day	Sat
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	airport : lax
State Reference	CA
Altitude	msl bound lower : 2350 msl bound upper : 2500
Environment
Flight Conditions	IMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : lax
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Commercial Fixed Wing
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	descent : approach
Route In Use	arrival other arrival star : star enroute : on vectors
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Make Model Name	Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer
Operating Under FAR Part	other : unknown
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time total : 6000
ASRS Report	357088
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : commercial
Events
Anomaly	conflict : nmac other anomaly other
Independent Detector	aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	flight crew : took evasive action
Consequence	Other
Miss Distance	horizontal : 1500 vertical : 50
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Ambiguous

Narrative:

Approach profile landing runway 24R at lax following sadde 6 arrival is prime for a major midair. It almost happened to me. Descending to 2500 ft, aircraft configured to flaps 15 degrees, at 170 KTS on downwind I was directed to fly 160 degree heading. Rolling out of the turn at 2600 ft, a target appeared at the nose of the aircraft with an RA of descend. We descended to 2350 ft, and heard 'clear of conflict,' and climbed back to 2500 ft. The controller stated excitedly that we had 2400 ft traffic just behind us that had just popped up, an advent that further phone conversation with approach control confirmed. My distinct impression, given the turning descent and very short TCASII warning and resolution, was that we were dangerously close to a midair, even with all the system working. My recommendation would be to have runway 24R traffic start base at 3000 ft to give some buffer to the obvious problem of light aircraft at 2400 ft. 100 ft is not enough!

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: LGT JUST TURNED BASE LEG FOR RWY 24R AT LAX AND HAD A CONFLICT WITH A LIGHT ACFT. RPTR RECOMMENDS THAT TURNS TO BASE LEG BE GIVEN AT 3000 FT MSL TO ALLOW A LARGER BUFFER BTWN ACFT. SMA WAS APPARENTLY IN THE CLASS B WITHOUT CLRNC.

Narrative: APCH PROFILE LNDG RWY 24R AT LAX FOLLOWING SADDE 6 ARR IS PRIME FOR A MAJOR MIDAIR. IT ALMOST HAPPENED TO ME. DSNDING TO 2500 FT, ACFT CONFIGURED TO FLAPS 15 DEGS, AT 170 KTS ON DOWNWIND I WAS DIRECTED TO FLY 160 DEG HDG. ROLLING OUT OF THE TURN AT 2600 FT, A TARGET APPEARED AT THE NOSE OF THE ACFT WITH AN RA OF DSND. WE DSNDED TO 2350 FT, AND HEARD 'CLR OF CONFLICT,' AND CLBED BACK TO 2500 FT. THE CTLR STATED EXCITEDLY THAT WE HAD 2400 FT TFC JUST BEHIND US THAT HAD JUST POPPED UP, AN ADVENT THAT FURTHER PHONE CONVERSATION WITH APCH CTL CONFIRMED. MY DISTINCT IMPRESSION, GIVEN THE TURNING DSCNT AND VERY SHORT TCASII WARNING AND RESOLUTION, WAS THAT WE WERE DANGEROUSLY CLOSE TO A MIDAIR, EVEN WITH ALL THE SYS WORKING. MY RECOMMENDATION WOULD BE TO HAVE RWY 24R TFC START BASE AT 3000 FT TO GIVE SOME BUFFER TO THE OBVIOUS PROB OF LIGHT ACFT AT 2400 FT. 100 FT IS NOT ENOUGH!

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.