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Instructor report regarding altitude deviation on IFR approach descending from assigned altitude. Confusion between instructor and student regarding altitude cleared to.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 358280 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199701 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : pae |
| State Reference | WA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 2500 msl bound upper : 3000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | IMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : sea |
| Operator | general aviation : instructional |
| Make Model Name | Skyhawk 172/Cutlass 172 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | Other |
| Function | instruction : instructor |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : cfi |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 77 flight time total : 1896 flight time type : 1249 |
| ASRS Report | 358280 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | Other |
| Function | flight crew : single pilot |
| Qualification | pilot : private |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude non adherence : far non adherence : clearance |
| Independent Detector | other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
I was on an IFR training flight with 4 students. The WX was overcast from 2000 ft to less than 5000 ft with light to moderate rain. The winds from 3000-5000 ft were about 40 KTS from the ssw. We were cleared to fly outbound from ritts on the 340 degree bearing, descend from 5000 ft to 3000 ft. During descent, the vsi and altitude indicated instantaneous, very large descent rates due to water in the static port. There was light to moderate turbulence. This distraction my student. As we leveled off at 3000 ft, center told us to start our procedure turn. As we turned, I checked the DME and became concerned that we would exceed the 10 NM limit for the procedure turn. At the same time, my student asked if we could descend to 2000 ft for the procedure turn. I asked him if we had been cleared, and he said yes, so I told him descend to 2000 ft. As we neared 2500 ft, center asked if we were maintaining 3000 ft. I realized we were too low and had my student climb, told center we were leveling at 3000 ft, and asked if we were cleared for the approach. Center said no. This would not have happened if I had confirmed the approach clearance with center instead of my student. The situation was the same as 2 crew members not agreeing on a clearance. It should be verified with the controller. In this case there was no need to descend at that time. It took about 15 mins to get back to the OM.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: INSTRUCTOR RPT REGARDING ALTDEV ON IFR APCH DSNDING FROM ASSIGNED ALT. CONFUSION BTWN INSTRUCTOR AND STUDENT REGARDING ALT CLRED TO.
Narrative: I WAS ON AN IFR TRAINING FLT WITH 4 STUDENTS. THE WX WAS OVCST FROM 2000 FT TO LESS THAN 5000 FT WITH LIGHT TO MODERATE RAIN. THE WINDS FROM 3000-5000 FT WERE ABOUT 40 KTS FROM THE SSW. WE WERE CLRED TO FLY OUTBOUND FROM RITTS ON THE 340 DEG BEARING, DSND FROM 5000 FT TO 3000 FT. DURING DSCNT, THE VSI AND ALT INDICATED INSTANTANEOUS, VERY LARGE DSCNT RATES DUE TO WATER IN THE STATIC PORT. THERE WAS LIGHT TO MODERATE TURB. THIS DISTR MY STUDENT. AS WE LEVELED OFF AT 3000 FT, CTR TOLD US TO START OUR PROC TURN. AS WE TURNED, I CHKED THE DME AND BECAME CONCERNED THAT WE WOULD EXCEED THE 10 NM LIMIT FOR THE PROC TURN. AT THE SAME TIME, MY STUDENT ASKED IF WE COULD DSND TO 2000 FT FOR THE PROC TURN. I ASKED HIM IF WE HAD BEEN CLRED, AND HE SAID YES, SO I TOLD HIM DSND TO 2000 FT. AS WE NEARED 2500 FT, CTR ASKED IF WE WERE MAINTAINING 3000 FT. I REALIZED WE WERE TOO LOW AND HAD MY STUDENT CLB, TOLD CTR WE WERE LEVELING AT 3000 FT, AND ASKED IF WE WERE CLRED FOR THE APCH. CTR SAID NO. THIS WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED IF I HAD CONFIRMED THE APCH CLRNC WITH CTR INSTEAD OF MY STUDENT. THE SIT WAS THE SAME AS 2 CREW MEMBERS NOT AGREEING ON A CLRNC. IT SHOULD BE VERIFIED WITH THE CTLR. IN THIS CASE THERE WAS NO NEED TO DSND AT THAT TIME. IT TOOK ABOUT 15 MINS TO GET BACK TO THE OM.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.