37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 358429 |
Time | |
Date | 199701 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : srq |
State Reference | FL |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 14000 msl bound upper : 15000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zma |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 75 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 750 |
ASRS Report | 358429 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 6000 vertical : 1000 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
I am writing, not because I feel anything unsafe happened, but because I am disturbed by crews not looking outside their aircraft and relying on ATC/TCASII for traffic separation on clear VFR days. We were at 14000 ft awaiting climb clearance. Center issued us traffic at 15000 ft, 2 O'clock and 10 mi, a B727. My copilot saw the traffic and pointed the B727 out to me. (This was at 10 mi.) the B727 never acknowledged traffic in sight (us). When the B727 was at 12 O'clock and at 1-2 mi, ATC issued clearance to me to maintain visual separation and to climb to 17000 ft. I remained at 14000 ft until the B727 was through my 11 O'clock position and began my climb to 17000 ft. As we were approaching 15000 ft in the climb with the B727 through 9:30 - 1O O'clock and less than 1 mi, the B727 pilot told ATC that they had an RA alert on their TCASII and felt we had not given them enough distance. This was false. Had the B727 crew seen us (our position) prior to climb and seen our position on their TCASII screen, they would have known we were always well below or behind and no danger existed.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CPR MLG LEGALLY BUT FOOLISHLY PASSES CLOSE TO A B727 WHEN CLRED TO MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION AND TO CLB TO DESIRED ALT. HE BLAMES THE B727 FOR NOT 'LOOKING OUTSIDE THEIR ACFT.' THEORETICALLY, MISSING BY ONE FT IS LEGAL. THE B727 CREW COMPLAINT THAT INSUFFICIENT SEPARATION WAS PROVIDED BY THE RPTR MAKES SENSE.
Narrative: I AM WRITING, NOT BECAUSE I FEEL ANYTHING UNSAFE HAPPENED, BUT BECAUSE I AM DISTURBED BY CREWS NOT LOOKING OUTSIDE THEIR ACFT AND RELYING ON ATC/TCASII FOR TFC SEPARATION ON CLR VFR DAYS. WE WERE AT 14000 FT AWAITING CLB CLRNC. CTR ISSUED US TFC AT 15000 FT, 2 O'CLOCK AND 10 MI, A B727. MY COPLT SAW THE TFC AND POINTED THE B727 OUT TO ME. (THIS WAS AT 10 MI.) THE B727 NEVER ACKNOWLEDGED TFC IN SIGHT (US). WHEN THE B727 WAS AT 12 O'CLOCK AND AT 1-2 MI, ATC ISSUED CLRNC TO ME TO MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION AND TO CLB TO 17000 FT. I REMAINED AT 14000 FT UNTIL THE B727 WAS THROUGH MY 11 O'CLOCK POS AND BEGAN MY CLB TO 17000 FT. AS WE WERE APCHING 15000 FT IN THE CLB WITH THE B727 THROUGH 9:30 - 1O O'CLOCK AND LESS THAN 1 MI, THE B727 PLT TOLD ATC THAT THEY HAD AN RA ALERT ON THEIR TCASII AND FELT WE HAD NOT GIVEN THEM ENOUGH DISTANCE. THIS WAS FALSE. HAD THE B727 CREW SEEN US (OUR POS) PRIOR TO CLB AND SEEN OUR POS ON THEIR TCASII SCREEN, THEY WOULD HAVE KNOWN WE WERE ALWAYS WELL BELOW OR BEHIND AND NO DANGER EXISTED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.