Without any notice this reporter suddenly found himself in high speed maneuvering at a low altitude,...

Attributes
ACN	358934
Time
Date	199701
Day	Sun
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	airport : ewr
State Reference	NJ
Altitude	msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 2000
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Night
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tower : lga
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Brasilia EMB-120 All Series
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 135
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	cruise other cruise other
Route In Use	approach : visual
Flight Plan	VFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 6300 flight time type : 3300
ASRS Report	358934
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : commercial pilot : instrument
Events
Anomaly	other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other controllera other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance other
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	ATC Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other
Situations
ATC Facility	procedure or policy : unspecified

Narrative:

While on an IFR flight plan to ewr, while in the vicinity of the carmel VOR, we were told by new york approach that ewr was accepting VFR arrs 'down the river.' we canceled our IFR flight plan and were told by approach to descend to 2000 ft and fly direct to the tappan zee bridge and then down the hudson river toward the statue of liberty. Soon after passing the tappan zee bridge we were handed off to the lga tower. Upon passing abeam the teb airport over the hudson river, the lga tower told us to 'fly north' and then descend below the class B airspace. We were told ewr was not accepting VFR arrs anymore. As we executed our right turn to north (left was not possible at our altitude due to the buildings of nyc) lga said we were approaching the teb airspace. (We remained at 2000 ft MSL.) lga then told us to continue our turn to proceed back down the hudson again below 1100 ft MSL and then hold at the verrazano-narrows bridge until ewr accepted VFR arrs again. This type of maneuvering is unsafe. At our speed and the altitudes we fly, the airspace safely allows a direct path down the river and into ewr. Once we are told a VFR arrival is accepted, the controllers must be committed to accepting those that have begun the arrival. Else the VFR arrival program should be disallowed. They must not be able to change their mind mid way. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: this one incident, out of 50 good arrs, has turned this reporter off to accepting this clearance again. When the lga tower canceled the river clearance, this crew felt like they were left hanging -- all that was said was 'turn left below the TCA, squawk VFR, good day.' this reporter captain was upset by the handling and only through assertion, got the hold clearance at verrazano bridge. An ATR had been 5 NM ahead, and received the same handling.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: WITHOUT ANY NOTICE THIS RPTR SUDDENLY FOUND HIMSELF IN HIGH SPD MANEUVERING AT A LOW ALT, AND WITHOUT GUIDANCE INTO EWR. THE RPTR'S E120 HAD BEEN ORIGINALLY CLRED 'DOWN THE RIVER' VFR, BUT NEAR THE BOUNDARY OF EWR CLASS B, THIS CLRNC WAS CANCELED.

Narrative: WHILE ON AN IFR FLT PLAN TO EWR, WHILE IN THE VICINITY OF THE CARMEL VOR, WE WERE TOLD BY NEW YORK APCH THAT EWR WAS ACCEPTING VFR ARRS 'DOWN THE RIVER.' WE CANCELED OUR IFR FLT PLAN AND WERE TOLD BY APCH TO DSND TO 2000 FT AND FLY DIRECT TO THE TAPPAN ZEE BRIDGE AND THEN DOWN THE HUDSON RIVER TOWARD THE STATUE OF LIBERTY. SOON AFTER PASSING THE TAPPAN ZEE BRIDGE WE WERE HANDED OFF TO THE LGA TWR. UPON PASSING ABEAM THE TEB ARPT OVER THE HUDSON RIVER, THE LGA TWR TOLD US TO 'FLY N' AND THEN DSND BELOW THE CLASS B AIRSPACE. WE WERE TOLD EWR WAS NOT ACCEPTING VFR ARRS ANYMORE. AS WE EXECUTED OUR R TURN TO N (L WAS NOT POSSIBLE AT OUR ALT DUE TO THE BUILDINGS OF NYC) LGA SAID WE WERE APCHING THE TEB AIRSPACE. (WE REMAINED AT 2000 FT MSL.) LGA THEN TOLD US TO CONTINUE OUR TURN TO PROCEED BACK DOWN THE HUDSON AGAIN BELOW 1100 FT MSL AND THEN HOLD AT THE VERRAZANO-NARROWS BRIDGE UNTIL EWR ACCEPTED VFR ARRS AGAIN. THIS TYPE OF MANEUVERING IS UNSAFE. AT OUR SPD AND THE ALTS WE FLY, THE AIRSPACE SAFELY ALLOWS A DIRECT PATH DOWN THE RIVER AND INTO EWR. ONCE WE ARE TOLD A VFR ARR IS ACCEPTED, THE CTLRS MUST BE COMMITTED TO ACCEPTING THOSE THAT HAVE BEGUN THE ARR. ELSE THE VFR ARR PROGRAM SHOULD BE DISALLOWED. THEY MUST NOT BE ABLE TO CHANGE THEIR MIND MID WAY. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THIS ONE INCIDENT, OUT OF 50 GOOD ARRS, HAS TURNED THIS RPTR OFF TO ACCEPTING THIS CLRNC AGAIN. WHEN THE LGA TWR CANCELED THE RIVER CLRNC, THIS CREW FELT LIKE THEY WERE LEFT HANGING -- ALL THAT WAS SAID WAS 'TURN L BELOW THE TCA, SQUAWK VFR, GOOD DAY.' THIS RPTR CAPT WAS UPSET BY THE HANDLING AND ONLY THROUGH ASSERTION, GOT THE HOLD CLRNC AT VERRAZANO BRIDGE. AN ATR HAD BEEN 5 NM AHEAD, AND RECEIVED THE SAME HANDLING.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

Without any notice this reporter suddenly found himself in high speed maneuvering at a low altitude, and without guidance into ewr. The reporter's E120 had been originally cleared 'down the river' VFR, but near the boundary of ewr class B, this clearance was canceled.