37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 360053 |
Time | |
Date | 199702 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : slc |
State Reference | UT |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 11600 msl bound upper : 17000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : slc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B767 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time total : 13000 |
ASRS Report | 360053 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 1800 |
ASRS Report | 359720 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : unspecified other controllera |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact none taken : insufficient time |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
We were on the bearr 2 arrival (landing north) to slc. At 11600 ft MSL, slc approach called to tell us to level at 12000 ft MSL. We (I) said we would climb to 12000 ft. Approach said we had not been cleared to leave 17000 ft. I (foolishly) said we had been 'cleared for the approach' and approach control reminded us that that does not authority/authorized descent below 17000 ft. The remainder of the flight was without incident. The copilot and I had discussed the pitfalls of slc arrs not 30 mins prior to this occurrence, and still fell into the trap of descending without specific clearance to do so. Having both types of arrs at the same airport ('expect to cross at XXX altitude,' and 'remain at XXX altitude until cleared for the arrival' adds to the possible confusion we experienced. How about a note 'do not descend below 17000 ft until cleared to a lower altitude?' supplemental information from acn 359720: approaching bearr intersection on the bearr 2 arrival into slc, approach control told us to 'cross bearr at 17000 ft, cleared for the bearr 2 arrival.' after crossing bearr we began to descend to cross tebox at 10000 ft. Passing 11800 ft approach told us to descend to 12000 ft. We told him we were already passing 11600 ft for 10000 ft. He said maintain 12000 ft -- the 10000 ft restr at tebox was an 'expect' only. We climbed back up to 12000 ft and the rest of the flight was uneventful.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: DURING DSCNT INTO SLC, A B767 DSNDS THROUGH ITS CLRED ALT AS THE FLC MISREADS THE ARR CHART. THE FLC CONFUSES THE ARR PROCS AMONG THE DIFFERENT PUBLISHED ARR. SOME ARRS HAVE 'EXPECT ALTS' AND OTHERS HAVE 'DO NOT DSND BELOW XXX UNTIL CLRED.'
Narrative: WE WERE ON THE BEARR 2 ARR (LNDG N) TO SLC. AT 11600 FT MSL, SLC APCH CALLED TO TELL US TO LEVEL AT 12000 FT MSL. WE (I) SAID WE WOULD CLB TO 12000 FT. APCH SAID WE HAD NOT BEEN CLRED TO LEAVE 17000 FT. I (FOOLISHLY) SAID WE HAD BEEN 'CLRED FOR THE APCH' AND APCH CTL REMINDED US THAT THAT DOES NOT AUTH DSCNT BELOW 17000 FT. THE REMAINDER OF THE FLT WAS WITHOUT INCIDENT. THE COPLT AND I HAD DISCUSSED THE PITFALLS OF SLC ARRS NOT 30 MINS PRIOR TO THIS OCCURRENCE, AND STILL FELL INTO THE TRAP OF DSNDING WITHOUT SPECIFIC CLRNC TO DO SO. HAVING BOTH TYPES OF ARRS AT THE SAME ARPT ('EXPECT TO CROSS AT XXX ALT,' AND 'REMAIN AT XXX ALT UNTIL CLRED FOR THE ARR' ADDS TO THE POSSIBLE CONFUSION WE EXPERIENCED. HOW ABOUT A NOTE 'DO NOT DSND BELOW 17000 FT UNTIL CLRED TO A LOWER ALT?' SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 359720: APCHING BEARR INTXN ON THE BEARR 2 ARR INTO SLC, APCH CTL TOLD US TO 'CROSS BEARR AT 17000 FT, CLRED FOR THE BEARR 2 ARR.' AFTER XING BEARR WE BEGAN TO DSND TO CROSS TEBOX AT 10000 FT. PASSING 11800 FT APCH TOLD US TO DSND TO 12000 FT. WE TOLD HIM WE WERE ALREADY PASSING 11600 FT FOR 10000 FT. HE SAID MAINTAIN 12000 FT -- THE 10000 FT RESTR AT TEBOX WAS AN 'EXPECT' ONLY. WE CLBED BACK UP TO 12000 FT AND THE REST OF THE FLT WAS UNEVENTFUL.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.