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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 360879 |
Time | |
Date | 199702 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 0001 To 0600 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : tim |
State Reference | FO |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 39000 msl bound upper : 39000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : ttzp artcc : zma |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B767 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Route In Use | enroute : atlantic enroute : other oceanic |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | B747 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 360879 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 170 flight time total : 5300 flight time type : 930 |
ASRS Report | 360899 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : published procedure non adherence : far |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 24000 vertical : 1000 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
En route from sao paulo, gru, to jfk on airway UA324, leaving georgetown airspace, entering piarco airspace, had been assigned FL390 for previous 50 mins making regular position reports at FL390. We were overtaken by air carrier at FL390 in a B747 doing mach .85. He was on a direct routing to minda position off airways. He crossed position minda 8- 10 NM behind us. We saw him pop up on TCASII just behind us with same altitude. We had just made minda report to both georgetown and piarco when piarco told us to descend immediately to FL350. B747 reported minda XA31Z FL390. We had reported minda XA30Z FL390. When B747 was questioned by piarco control he confirmed that he had seen us on TCASII earlier. Amazing that he watched us get closer and did nothing. Our TCASII did not pick him up from behind until 8-10 mi. I believe TCASII does not do well when being overtaken. In any event we never got a TCASII TA or RA. His symbol stayed white. As we descended the distance closed to 4 mi. I questioned piarco control, he said that georgetown had made a mistake. He asked us if we had been in contact with georgetown. We had been in good radio contact with georgetown at all times. I then switched back to georgetown on secondary VHF radio and asked about the loss of separation over minda. Normally they maintain 10 min separation, not 10 mi. He said that air carrier B747 had been cleared direct to minda to join our airway. Sounded as if he knew that he had made a large error. Subsequent ATC sectors had problems keeping B747 in radio contact.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B767 ON UA324 AT MINDA INTXN, FL390 WAS OVERTAKEN BY A B747 ON DIRECT ROUTING TO MINDA FL390. SAW ACFT ON TCASII 4 MI IN TRAIL. CTR CTLR CLRED FLT TO DSND TO FL350. B747 ADVISED HAD THEM ON TCASII BUT DID NOT TAKE ANY ACTION.
Narrative: ENRTE FROM SAO PAULO, GRU, TO JFK ON AIRWAY UA324, LEAVING GEORGETOWN AIRSPACE, ENTERING PIARCO AIRSPACE, HAD BEEN ASSIGNED FL390 FOR PREVIOUS 50 MINS MAKING REGULAR POS RPTS AT FL390. WE WERE OVERTAKEN BY ACR AT FL390 IN A B747 DOING MACH .85. HE WAS ON A DIRECT ROUTING TO MINDA POS OFF AIRWAYS. HE CROSSED POS MINDA 8- 10 NM BEHIND US. WE SAW HIM POP UP ON TCASII JUST BEHIND US WITH SAME ALT. WE HAD JUST MADE MINDA RPT TO BOTH GEORGETOWN AND PIARCO WHEN PIARCO TOLD US TO DSND IMMEDIATELY TO FL350. B747 RPTED MINDA XA31Z FL390. WE HAD RPTED MINDA XA30Z FL390. WHEN B747 WAS QUESTIONED BY PIARCO CTL HE CONFIRMED THAT HE HAD SEEN US ON TCASII EARLIER. AMAZING THAT HE WATCHED US GET CLOSER AND DID NOTHING. OUR TCASII DID NOT PICK HIM UP FROM BEHIND UNTIL 8-10 MI. I BELIEVE TCASII DOES NOT DO WELL WHEN BEING OVERTAKEN. IN ANY EVENT WE NEVER GOT A TCASII TA OR RA. HIS SYMBOL STAYED WHITE. AS WE DSNDED THE DISTANCE CLOSED TO 4 MI. I QUESTIONED PIARCO CTL, HE SAID THAT GEORGETOWN HAD MADE A MISTAKE. HE ASKED US IF WE HAD BEEN IN CONTACT WITH GEORGETOWN. WE HAD BEEN IN GOOD RADIO CONTACT WITH GEORGETOWN AT ALL TIMES. I THEN SWITCHED BACK TO GEORGETOWN ON SECONDARY VHF RADIO AND ASKED ABOUT THE LOSS OF SEPARATION OVER MINDA. NORMALLY THEY MAINTAIN 10 MIN SEPARATION, NOT 10 MI. HE SAID THAT ACR B747 HAD BEEN CLRED DIRECT TO MINDA TO JOIN OUR AIRWAY. SOUNDED AS IF HE KNEW THAT HE HAD MADE A LARGE ERROR. SUBSEQUENT ATC SECTORS HAD PROBS KEEPING B747 IN RADIO CONTACT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.