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Mdt corp jet in climb was advised of traffic. Reporter had it in sight, ATC told flight crew to maintain visual separation and continue climb. TCASII alerted flight crew to stop climb until clear of traffic. Reporter says that a clearance to maintain visual when a conflict is likely should not be given.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 363070 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199703 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : hpn |
| State Reference | NY |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 8000 msl bound upper : 8500 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : zny |
| Operator | general aviation : corporate |
| Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
| Route In Use | enroute airway : zny |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | Other |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 60 flight time total : 8800 flight time type : 3500 |
| ASRS Report | 363070 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | Other |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
Our aircraft was level at 7000 ft flying wbound. ATC reported traffic at 10 O'clock, climbing through 8000 ft. We called traffic in sight and were told to maintain visual and climb to 15000 ft. We understood this to mean our flight path would not cross the flight path of our traffic and initiated a climb. As we climbed through 8000 ft we got a TA on TCASII quickly followed by an RA to stop climb. We leveled at 8500 ft and the traffic passed 500 ft above and finally behind. If given a clearance to climb with traffic in sight. I think many pilots assume flight paths will not cross, ie, separation may be less than required for IFR but flight paths are parallel or one will pass behind the other, etc. This type of clearance should not be given if the chance of a conflict exists.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MDT CORP JET IN CLB WAS ADVISED OF TFC. RPTR HAD IT IN SIGHT, ATC TOLD FLC TO MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION AND CONTINUE CLB. TCASII ALERTED FLC TO STOP CLB UNTIL CLR OF TFC. RPTR SAYS THAT A CLRNC TO MAINTAIN VISUAL WHEN A CONFLICT IS LIKELY SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN.
Narrative: OUR ACFT WAS LEVEL AT 7000 FT FLYING WBOUND. ATC RPTED TFC AT 10 O'CLOCK, CLBING THROUGH 8000 FT. WE CALLED TFC IN SIGHT AND WERE TOLD TO MAINTAIN VISUAL AND CLB TO 15000 FT. WE UNDERSTOOD THIS TO MEAN OUR FLT PATH WOULD NOT CROSS THE FLT PATH OF OUR TFC AND INITIATED A CLB. AS WE CLBED THROUGH 8000 FT WE GOT A TA ON TCASII QUICKLY FOLLOWED BY AN RA TO STOP CLB. WE LEVELED AT 8500 FT AND THE TFC PASSED 500 FT ABOVE AND FINALLY BEHIND. IF GIVEN A CLRNC TO CLB WITH TFC IN SIGHT. I THINK MANY PLTS ASSUME FLT PATHS WILL NOT CROSS, IE, SEPARATION MAY BE LESS THAN REQUIRED FOR IFR BUT FLT PATHS ARE PARALLEL OR ONE WILL PASS BEHIND THE OTHER, ETC. THIS TYPE OF CLRNC SHOULD NOT BE GIVEN IF THE CHANCE OF A CONFLICT EXISTS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.