37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 376370 |
Time | |
Date | 199708 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : msn |
State Reference | WI |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 20000 msl bound upper : 21000 |
Environment | |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zau |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | cruise other descent other |
Route In Use | enroute other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 376370 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
ASRS Report | 376371 |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : undershoot non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : unable |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Deviation |
Narrative:
15 DME north of msn VOR at FL290, ATC issued clearance to cross msn VOR below FL200, and to cross 15 DME north of jvl VOR at 15000 ft. Descent was started 330 KTS, full speed brakes deployed. Rate of descent was 4900+ FPM. We crossed the VOR at approximately FL210. 7 DME south of the VOR, ATC mentioned the crossing restr. We stated the late issuance of the clearance and that the aircraft was descending at 4000+ FPM. To avoid this in the future, I will not accept such a clearance, and I will be sure to inform ATC that we will be unable to comply with the crossing restrs. I also feel that ATC should be aware of the capability of maximum descent rates of the aircraft and the comfort levels of the passenger. In this case, this crossing restr should have been issued at least 40 DME north of the fix to be crossed. Supplemental information from acn 376371: the clearance was given to us so quickly that both of us had to take 1 crossing a piece because I could not write fast enough. Our cruise speed was mach .76 and we complied as quickly as we both knew what was being asked of us. ATC seemed to be upset because we did not cross msn at FL200 from FL290 at cruise speed 15 DME from the fix. I was busy on another frequency getting ATIS so we were very busy. If we are told ahead of time that a last min descent is coming we would be ready for it.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR S80 FLC GIVEN A LATE XING RESTR THAT THEY THEN FAILED TO MAKE. ATC WAS QUOTED BY FO AS 'BEING UPSET' ABOUT THE DEV. CREW FELT IT WAS AN ATC PROB.
Narrative: 15 DME N OF MSN VOR AT FL290, ATC ISSUED CLRNC TO CROSS MSN VOR BELOW FL200, AND TO CROSS 15 DME N OF JVL VOR AT 15000 FT. DSCNT WAS STARTED 330 KTS, FULL SPD BRAKES DEPLOYED. RATE OF DSCNT WAS 4900+ FPM. WE CROSSED THE VOR AT APPROX FL210. 7 DME S OF THE VOR, ATC MENTIONED THE XING RESTR. WE STATED THE LATE ISSUANCE OF THE CLRNC AND THAT THE ACFT WAS DSNDING AT 4000+ FPM. TO AVOID THIS IN THE FUTURE, I WILL NOT ACCEPT SUCH A CLRNC, AND I WILL BE SURE TO INFORM ATC THAT WE WILL BE UNABLE TO COMPLY WITH THE XING RESTRS. I ALSO FEEL THAT ATC SHOULD BE AWARE OF THE CAPABILITY OF MAX DSCNT RATES OF THE ACFT AND THE COMFORT LEVELS OF THE PAX. IN THIS CASE, THIS XING RESTR SHOULD HAVE BEEN ISSUED AT LEAST 40 DME N OF THE FIX TO BE CROSSED. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 376371: THE CLRNC WAS GIVEN TO US SO QUICKLY THAT BOTH OF US HAD TO TAKE 1 XING A PIECE BECAUSE I COULD NOT WRITE FAST ENOUGH. OUR CRUISE SPD WAS MACH .76 AND WE COMPLIED AS QUICKLY AS WE BOTH KNEW WHAT WAS BEING ASKED OF US. ATC SEEMED TO BE UPSET BECAUSE WE DID NOT CROSS MSN AT FL200 FROM FL290 AT CRUISE SPD 15 DME FROM THE FIX. I WAS BUSY ON ANOTHER FREQ GETTING ATIS SO WE WERE VERY BUSY. IF WE ARE TOLD AHEAD OF TIME THAT A LAST MIN DSCNT IS COMING WE WOULD BE READY FOR IT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.