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A B757 on a visual approach to las runway 25L experiences a conflict when a B737 crosses under for runway 25R. The B737 was maintaining visual separation from the B757. Traffic was not issued to the B757 flight crew.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 391789 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199801 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : las |
| State Reference | NV |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 7000 msl bound upper : 8000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : las |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
| Route In Use | approach : visual |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | approach : visual |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 20000 flight time type : 700 |
| ASRS Report | 391789 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : private pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 7500 flight time type : 750 |
| ASRS Report | 391862 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : far other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 500 vertical : 0 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
We were cleared to intercept the runway 25L localizer and proceed inbound to runway 25L and given a descent clearance to 6500 ft. The first officer said he saw the traffic on the TCASII, but it was no factor (showing white). Next we get a TCASII RA (red). I looked out the left window and saw the aircraft, a B737 (air carrier Y) coming at us about 10 O'clock and slightly below us. Did not have time to react to TCASII and had aircraft visually. I knew he would clear below us. As he went under us the TCASII indicated a 500 ft separation. I asked approach what he was doing there and why they did not tell us about him. Approach said he was sorry for not advising us and that air carrier Y said he had us visually and accepted a visual behind us. At this time approach cleared us for a visual to runway 25L and change to tower frequency. I feel that air carrier Y failed to maintain proper spacing after accepting the visual approach. The problem seems to be that too many of us in the airline business are accepting visual approachs at busy airports to save time and money and that too many controllers are asking us -- or at times giving us -- a visual to make their jobs easier. I also believe most controllers are overloaded at times due to the system. One major problem I find at las vegas is that controllers do not advise you of traffic as they should. They will clear you for an approach and never tell you that you are behind a heavy or what your speed is in relation to the traffic. Supplemental information from acn 391862: las approach cleared us for the visual approach to runway 25L. Passing through 8000 ft we saw another air carrier B737 pass from left to right directly under us. TCASII showed a vertical separation of 500 ft and gave us an RA to climb. We started to climb and queried the controller who told us the other carrier had us in sight and was to have kept visual separation.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B757 ON A VISUAL APCH TO LAS RWY 25L EXPERIENCES A CONFLICT WHEN A B737 CROSSES UNDER FOR RWY 25R. THE B737 WAS MAINTAINING VISUAL SEPARATION FROM THE B757. TFC WAS NOT ISSUED TO THE B757 FLC.
Narrative: WE WERE CLRED TO INTERCEPT THE RWY 25L LOC AND PROCEED INBOUND TO RWY 25L AND GIVEN A DSCNT CLRNC TO 6500 FT. THE FO SAID HE SAW THE TFC ON THE TCASII, BUT IT WAS NO FACTOR (SHOWING WHITE). NEXT WE GET A TCASII RA (RED). I LOOKED OUT THE L WINDOW AND SAW THE ACFT, A B737 (ACR Y) COMING AT US ABOUT 10 O'CLOCK AND SLIGHTLY BELOW US. DID NOT HAVE TIME TO REACT TO TCASII AND HAD ACFT VISUALLY. I KNEW HE WOULD CLR BELOW US. AS HE WENT UNDER US THE TCASII INDICATED A 500 FT SEPARATION. I ASKED APCH WHAT HE WAS DOING THERE AND WHY THEY DID NOT TELL US ABOUT HIM. APCH SAID HE WAS SORRY FOR NOT ADVISING US AND THAT ACR Y SAID HE HAD US VISUALLY AND ACCEPTED A VISUAL BEHIND US. AT THIS TIME APCH CLRED US FOR A VISUAL TO RWY 25L AND CHANGE TO TWR FREQ. I FEEL THAT ACR Y FAILED TO MAINTAIN PROPER SPACING AFTER ACCEPTING THE VISUAL APCH. THE PROB SEEMS TO BE THAT TOO MANY OF US IN THE AIRLINE BUSINESS ARE ACCEPTING VISUAL APCHS AT BUSY ARPTS TO SAVE TIME AND MONEY AND THAT TOO MANY CTLRS ARE ASKING US -- OR AT TIMES GIVING US -- A VISUAL TO MAKE THEIR JOBS EASIER. I ALSO BELIEVE MOST CTLRS ARE OVERLOADED AT TIMES DUE TO THE SYS. ONE MAJOR PROB I FIND AT LAS VEGAS IS THAT CTLRS DO NOT ADVISE YOU OF TFC AS THEY SHOULD. THEY WILL CLR YOU FOR AN APCH AND NEVER TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE BEHIND A HVY OR WHAT YOUR SPD IS IN RELATION TO THE TFC. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 391862: LAS APCH CLRED US FOR THE VISUAL APCH TO RWY 25L. PASSING THROUGH 8000 FT WE SAW ANOTHER ACR B737 PASS FROM L TO R DIRECTLY UNDER US. TCASII SHOWED A VERT SEPARATION OF 500 FT AND GAVE US AN RA TO CLB. WE STARTED TO CLB AND QUERIED THE CTLR WHO TOLD US THE OTHER CARRIER HAD US IN SIGHT AND WAS TO HAVE KEPT VISUAL SEPARATION.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.