37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 392541 |
Time | |
Date | 199801 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : fqf |
State Reference | CO |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 24000 msl bound upper : 24000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdv tower : jfk |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 260 flight time total : 17000 flight time type : 2600 |
ASRS Report | 392541 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 270 flight time total : 6000 flight time type : 700 |
ASRS Report | 392650 |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : unspecified other controllera |
Resolutory Action | other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
During an evening flight from phx to den, ZDV told us to 'cross larks at 17000 ft, inbound at 250 KTS.' the phraseology was nonstandard, but since on the larks arrival, it tells you to expect larks at 250 KTS and 17000 ft, we assumed that is what he meant. A few mins later, the controller asked our speed. When we told him 300 KTS, his response was 'I told you 250 KTS, I need you to slow down now or I'm going to give you a big fat left turn.' well, we slowed to 250 KTS almost immediately, and no turn was required (so no loss of separation). He should have given the initial instruction as 'reduce speed to 250 KTS, then cross larks at 17000 ft.' for our part, since his phraseology was nonstandard, we should have had him clarify his statement.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN MLG ACFT DSNDING ON THE LARKS 3 ARR MISUNDERSTANDS THE DSCNT CLRNC AND FLIES AT TOO HIGH OF A SPD.
Narrative: DURING AN EVENING FLT FROM PHX TO DEN, ZDV TOLD US TO 'CROSS LARKS AT 17000 FT, INBOUND AT 250 KTS.' THE PHRASEOLOGY WAS NONSTANDARD, BUT SINCE ON THE LARKS ARR, IT TELLS YOU TO EXPECT LARKS AT 250 KTS AND 17000 FT, WE ASSUMED THAT IS WHAT HE MEANT. A FEW MINS LATER, THE CTLR ASKED OUR SPD. WHEN WE TOLD HIM 300 KTS, HIS RESPONSE WAS 'I TOLD YOU 250 KTS, I NEED YOU TO SLOW DOWN NOW OR I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU A BIG FAT L TURN.' WELL, WE SLOWED TO 250 KTS ALMOST IMMEDIATELY, AND NO TURN WAS REQUIRED (SO NO LOSS OF SEPARATION). HE SHOULD HAVE GIVEN THE INITIAL INSTRUCTION AS 'REDUCE SPD TO 250 KTS, THEN CROSS LARKS AT 17000 FT.' FOR OUR PART, SINCE HIS PHRASEOLOGY WAS NONSTANDARD, WE SHOULD HAVE HAD HIM CLARIFY HIS STATEMENT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.