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B757 flight crew encountered en route WX, requiring easterly deviation. ARTCC controller issued headings that would cause WX encounter. Controller asked if PIC was refusing clearance and PIC affirmed. When WX was not a factor, PIC advised they could resume northbound heading and was so cleared. PIC concerned with perceived controller attitude.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 394422 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199802 |
| Day | Sun |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : amg |
| State Reference | GA |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 24000 msl bound upper : 24000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | IMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zjx artcc : zla |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | cruise other |
| Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 13500 flight time type : 1250 |
| ASRS Report | 394422 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 11500 flight time type : 3000 |
| ASRS Report | 394500 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather non adherence : clearance |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : exited adverse environment flight crew : returned to intended course or assigned course |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
En route from mco to dtw, we encountered thunderstorms over the tlh and amg area. We were flying at FL240 due to the turbulence reported at the higher altitudes. We asked and received clearance to deviate to the east of course and turned to a 030 degree heading. After a few mins, ZJX requested we turn to a 350 degree heading (back towards the WX). We replied that we could only turn to a 010 degree heading and turned to that heading. After 1 min, jax stated that other aircraft had flown through that area and now directed us to turn to a 330 degree heading. Again, we stated that we were unable to make the turn due to WX. Jax said that was unacceptable and to turn to 330 degrees. We then said that we could maybe turn to 350 degrees, but that was all for now. Jax said that was unacceptable and to turn to 330 degrees. The captain came on the radio and stated that we were turning to 350 degrees and could not turn further due to WX. He also told jax that if there were a traffic conflict, we would climb or descend as center needed. Jax came back asking if we were refusing the clearance. The captain stated that we were at this time. A few mins later when it was safe, we advised ZJX that we could turn to 330 degrees and turned to 330 degrees. ZJX never did indicate if there was a traffic conflict. ATC has to realize that we will not accept a clearance that puts the safety of the aircraft at risk.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B757 FLC ENCOUNTERED ENRTE WX, REQUIRING EASTERLY DEV. ARTCC CTLR ISSUED HDGS THAT WOULD CAUSE WX ENCOUNTER. CTLR ASKED IF PIC WAS REFUSING CLRNC AND PIC AFFIRMED. WHEN WX WAS NOT A FACTOR, PIC ADVISED THEY COULD RESUME NBOUND HDG AND WAS SO CLRED. PIC CONCERNED WITH PERCEIVED CTLR ATTITUDE.
Narrative: ENRTE FROM MCO TO DTW, WE ENCOUNTERED TSTMS OVER THE TLH AND AMG AREA. WE WERE FLYING AT FL240 DUE TO THE TURB RPTED AT THE HIGHER ALTS. WE ASKED AND RECEIVED CLRNC TO DEVIATE TO THE E OF COURSE AND TURNED TO A 030 DEG HDG. AFTER A FEW MINS, ZJX REQUESTED WE TURN TO A 350 DEG HDG (BACK TOWARDS THE WX). WE REPLIED THAT WE COULD ONLY TURN TO A 010 DEG HDG AND TURNED TO THAT HDG. AFTER 1 MIN, JAX STATED THAT OTHER ACFT HAD FLOWN THROUGH THAT AREA AND NOW DIRECTED US TO TURN TO A 330 DEG HDG. AGAIN, WE STATED THAT WE WERE UNABLE TO MAKE THE TURN DUE TO WX. JAX SAID THAT WAS UNACCEPTABLE AND TO TURN TO 330 DEGS. WE THEN SAID THAT WE COULD MAYBE TURN TO 350 DEGS, BUT THAT WAS ALL FOR NOW. JAX SAID THAT WAS UNACCEPTABLE AND TO TURN TO 330 DEGS. THE CAPT CAME ON THE RADIO AND STATED THAT WE WERE TURNING TO 350 DEGS AND COULD NOT TURN FURTHER DUE TO WX. HE ALSO TOLD JAX THAT IF THERE WERE A TFC CONFLICT, WE WOULD CLB OR DSND AS CTR NEEDED. JAX CAME BACK ASKING IF WE WERE REFUSING THE CLRNC. THE CAPT STATED THAT WE WERE AT THIS TIME. A FEW MINS LATER WHEN IT WAS SAFE, WE ADVISED ZJX THAT WE COULD TURN TO 330 DEGS AND TURNED TO 330 DEGS. ZJX NEVER DID INDICATE IF THERE WAS A TFC CONFLICT. ATC HAS TO REALIZE THAT WE WILL NOT ACCEPT A CLRNC THAT PUTS THE SAFETY OF THE ACFT AT RISK.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.