37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 397465 |
Time | |
Date | 199803 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : stl |
State Reference | MO |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
Environment | |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | DC-10 30 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | ground : preflight |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : atp pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 9109 flight time type : 3586 |
ASRS Report | 397465 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure non adherence other other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other other : unspecified |
Resolutory Action | none taken : insufficient time |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
At departure time, captain, talking on interphone to ramp, I was on ramp control frequency. We do not listen to one another. The door was closed. Then the door was reopened and a couple of bags were brought onboard and the L-1 flight attendant disagreed with the ramp agent. The captain said to bring the bags on and put them into the cockpit. We did and we pushed back. I asked the captain about the situation. His answer was the version of aircraft we were in had 5 tanks and it cuts down on cargo space. Since this was an unusually heavy flight, he said ramp told him on interphone that the cargo compartment was full and they couldn't get the last 2 bags onboard. He said he volunteered to take them in the cockpit. On the way up to msp I discussed with him that the cabin attendant may well be correct that those 2 bags did not go through the same level of screening as did the carry-on bags. I believe he saw the point. I believe sits such as these always occur at the last min, and the reason being, all the demands of an on-time operation limit the real time decision-making ability unless someone puts their foot down and says we will take the time to make the proper decision. A continuing education program on these matters exploring as many possible sits as time permits during recurrent training should be continued. Listening to fellow crew members is also very important. The L-1 cabin attendant was the only one to raise a flag. Different people have different areas of interest and concern. I have about 1 yr before I upgrade. I'm sure I will have the presence of mind to take full advantage of my crew, both cockpit and cabin. It is sits such as these that, unfortunately, provide some of the best training.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLC OF DC9-30 ALLOWS POTENTIALLY UNINSPECTED UNSCREENED BAGGAGE TO BE BROUGHT ONBOARD AND STOWED IN THE COCKPIT. FIRST CABIN ATTENDANT INDICATES THIS IS NOT APPROPRIATE BUT CAPT ALLOWS IT.
Narrative: AT DEP TIME, CAPT, TALKING ON INTERPHONE TO RAMP, I WAS ON RAMP CTL FREQ. WE DO NOT LISTEN TO ONE ANOTHER. THE DOOR WAS CLOSED. THEN THE DOOR WAS REOPENED AND A COUPLE OF BAGS WERE BROUGHT ONBOARD AND THE L-1 FLT ATTENDANT DISAGREED WITH THE RAMP AGENT. THE CAPT SAID TO BRING THE BAGS ON AND PUT THEM INTO THE COCKPIT. WE DID AND WE PUSHED BACK. I ASKED THE CAPT ABOUT THE SIT. HIS ANSWER WAS THE VERSION OF ACFT WE WERE IN HAD 5 TANKS AND IT CUTS DOWN ON CARGO SPACE. SINCE THIS WAS AN UNUSUALLY HVY FLT, HE SAID RAMP TOLD HIM ON INTERPHONE THAT THE CARGO COMPARTMENT WAS FULL AND THEY COULDN'T GET THE LAST 2 BAGS ONBOARD. HE SAID HE VOLUNTEERED TO TAKE THEM IN THE COCKPIT. ON THE WAY UP TO MSP I DISCUSSED WITH HIM THAT THE CABIN ATTENDANT MAY WELL BE CORRECT THAT THOSE 2 BAGS DID NOT GO THROUGH THE SAME LEVEL OF SCREENING AS DID THE CARRY-ON BAGS. I BELIEVE HE SAW THE POINT. I BELIEVE SITS SUCH AS THESE ALWAYS OCCUR AT THE LAST MIN, AND THE REASON BEING, ALL THE DEMANDS OF AN ON-TIME OP LIMIT THE REAL TIME DECISION-MAKING ABILITY UNLESS SOMEONE PUTS THEIR FOOT DOWN AND SAYS WE WILL TAKE THE TIME TO MAKE THE PROPER DECISION. A CONTINUING EDUCATION PROGRAM ON THESE MATTERS EXPLORING AS MANY POSSIBLE SITS AS TIME PERMITS DURING RECURRENT TRAINING SHOULD BE CONTINUED. LISTENING TO FELLOW CREW MEMBERS IS ALSO VERY IMPORTANT. THE L-1 CABIN ATTENDANT WAS THE ONLY ONE TO RAISE A FLAG. DIFFERENT PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT AREAS OF INTEREST AND CONCERN. I HAVE ABOUT 1 YR BEFORE I UPGRADE. I'M SURE I WILL HAVE THE PRESENCE OF MIND TO TAKE FULL ADVANTAGE OF MY CREW, BOTH COCKPIT AND CABIN. IT IS SITS SUCH AS THESE THAT, UNFORTUNATELY, PROVIDE SOME OF THE BEST TRAINING.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.