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B757 issued immediate takeoff clearance, delays on runway for alignment calibration, with CL60 on short final. Tower issues CL60 landing clearance with B757 still holding on runway. CL60 flight crew expresses concern for departure traffic, but tower reclrs CL60 to land. CL60 lands with B757 departing.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 397879 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199803 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : ege |
| State Reference | CO |
| Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tower : ege |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff ground other : taxi |
| Route In Use | departure other departure sid : sid |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Make Model Name | Challenger Jet Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | other : unknown |
| Navigation In Use | Other Other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach landing other |
| Route In Use | arrival other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 112 flight time total : 20000 flight time type : 1900 |
| ASRS Report | 397879 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 230 flight time total : 4000 flight time type : 200 |
| ASRS Report | 398262 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : ground less severe non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
Tower cleared us for takeoff on runway 25 eagle, co, with an aircraft on 5 mi final. We advised we would require a brief delay on the runway to 'guide align' our FMS/INS units. This is standard procedure per flight operations manual. As we completed the alignment, tower asked how soon before we would be rolling. We completed the takeoff without further incident. The landing aircraft landed behind us. I don't know what spacing he had. On departure, tower advised that he understood that our airline would not do the quick alignment on the runway, but on the taxiway prior to taking the runway. We don't have any information on changes to this procedure. We had checked NOTAMS, manual revisions and company bulletins. Nothing reflects any change to the alignment procedure. The misunderstanding could have serious ramifications if not resolved. We have advised flight operations of the problems. Supplemental information from acn 398262: while holding short of runway 25 at eagle, co, tower asked aircraft Y to state his position. He replied (I think) 'we're over vail.' after a short delay, tower stated 'air carrier X, cleared for immediate takeoff, do not delay on runway, aircraft on 5 mi final.' I replied 'we will have a short delay on the runway.' tower reply was very broken. At this point we had not moved off of the taxiway, and we were still holding short for runway 25. Then we moved onto runway 25. I replied, 'aircraft X cleared for takeoff runway 25.' at this point we set brakes on runway 25 and performed the alignment procedure. Tower then stated 'aircraft Y, you are cleared to land, caution B757 on the runway for departure.' aircraft Y stated 'copy cleared to land, is that aircraft rolling?' tower replied, 'I don't know, I was asking myself that. Aircraft X are you rolling?' I replied 'aircraft X is almost rolling, yes, aircraft X is rolling.' at this point the quick alignment on the runway was completed and the captain released the brakes. We advised our dispatch and flight operations to look into the procedure. Aircraft sounded concerned as we delayed on the runway and may have been very close to us on his landing. We never saw aircraft to judge how close to us he really was.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B757 ISSUED IMMEDIATE TKOF CLRNC, DELAYS ON RWY FOR ALIGNMENT CALIBRATION, WITH CL60 ON SHORT FINAL. TWR ISSUES CL60 LNDG CLRNC WITH B757 STILL HOLDING ON RWY. CL60 FLC EXPRESSES CONCERN FOR DEP TFC, BUT TWR RECLRS CL60 TO LAND. CL60 LANDS WITH B757 DEPARTING.
Narrative: TWR CLRED US FOR TKOF ON RWY 25 EAGLE, CO, WITH AN ACFT ON 5 MI FINAL. WE ADVISED WE WOULD REQUIRE A BRIEF DELAY ON THE RWY TO 'GUIDE ALIGN' OUR FMS/INS UNITS. THIS IS STANDARD PROC PER FLT OPS MANUAL. AS WE COMPLETED THE ALIGNMENT, TWR ASKED HOW SOON BEFORE WE WOULD BE ROLLING. WE COMPLETED THE TKOF WITHOUT FURTHER INCIDENT. THE LNDG ACFT LANDED BEHIND US. I DON'T KNOW WHAT SPACING HE HAD. ON DEP, TWR ADVISED THAT HE UNDERSTOOD THAT OUR AIRLINE WOULD NOT DO THE QUICK ALIGNMENT ON THE RWY, BUT ON THE TXWY PRIOR TO TAKING THE RWY. WE DON'T HAVE ANY INFO ON CHANGES TO THIS PROC. WE HAD CHKED NOTAMS, MANUAL REVISIONS AND COMPANY BULLETINS. NOTHING REFLECTS ANY CHANGE TO THE ALIGNMENT PROC. THE MISUNDERSTANDING COULD HAVE SERIOUS RAMIFICATIONS IF NOT RESOLVED. WE HAVE ADVISED FLT OPS OF THE PROBS. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 398262: WHILE HOLDING SHORT OF RWY 25 AT EAGLE, CO, TWR ASKED ACFT Y TO STATE HIS POS. HE REPLIED (I THINK) 'WE'RE OVER VAIL.' AFTER A SHORT DELAY, TWR STATED 'ACR X, CLRED FOR IMMEDIATE TKOF, DO NOT DELAY ON RWY, ACFT ON 5 MI FINAL.' I REPLIED 'WE WILL HAVE A SHORT DELAY ON THE RWY.' TWR REPLY WAS VERY BROKEN. AT THIS POINT WE HAD NOT MOVED OFF OF THE TXWY, AND WE WERE STILL HOLDING SHORT FOR RWY 25. THEN WE MOVED ONTO RWY 25. I REPLIED, 'ACFT X CLRED FOR TKOF RWY 25.' AT THIS POINT WE SET BRAKES ON RWY 25 AND PERFORMED THE ALIGNMENT PROC. TWR THEN STATED 'ACFT Y, YOU ARE CLRED TO LAND, CAUTION B757 ON THE RWY FOR DEP.' ACFT Y STATED 'COPY CLRED TO LAND, IS THAT ACFT ROLLING?' TWR REPLIED, 'I DON'T KNOW, I WAS ASKING MYSELF THAT. ACFT X ARE YOU ROLLING?' I REPLIED 'ACFT X IS ALMOST ROLLING, YES, ACFT X IS ROLLING.' AT THIS POINT THE QUICK ALIGNMENT ON THE RWY WAS COMPLETED AND THE CAPT RELEASED THE BRAKES. WE ADVISED OUR DISPATCH AND FLT OPS TO LOOK INTO THE PROC. ACFT SOUNDED CONCERNED AS WE DELAYED ON THE RWY AND MAY HAVE BEEN VERY CLOSE TO US ON HIS LNDG. WE NEVER SAW ACFT TO JUDGE HOW CLOSE TO US HE REALLY WAS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.