<< >> NASA ASRS Report 398018, March 1998

Flight crew of BAE3200 cleared to follow an air carrier and does so even as they cross the hold line. They indicate they actually infringed onto the runway because the hold line is so far back from the runway.

Attributes
ACN	398018
Time
Date	199803
Day	Sat
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	airport : pit
State Reference	PA
Altitude	agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tower : pit
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Jetstream 32
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Navigation In Use	Other Other
Flight Phase	ground other : taxi
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Commercial Fixed Wing
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	ground other : taxi
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : cfi pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 300 flight time total : 4500 flight time type : 3000
ASRS Report	398018
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : commercial
Events
Anomaly	incursion : runway
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : detected after the fact
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation
Situations
Airport	other physical facility procedure or policy : unspecified

Narrative:

Taxied out from gate and were told to follow an air carrier jet in front of us to runway 28C via taxiway east at pittsburgh. Following the jet, they crossed the hold short line for runway 28C and, not paying attention, we followed them across it as well. They got cleared to position and hold and I stopped. When I realized what happened I was at least a plane length across. The hold short line is so far back that we were not aware of its position. We didn't infringe on any runway and ATC said nothing about it to us or to the air carrier. That was the first time I can remember departing runway 28C at pittsburgh. I think something should be noted about the hold short line. I spoke to fellow crew members and they immediately knew what I was talking about, since they have experienced the same situation themselves.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: FLC OF BAE3200 CLRED TO FOLLOW AN ACR AND DOES SO EVEN AS THEY CROSS THE HOLD LINE. THEY INDICATE THEY ACTUALLY INFRINGED ONTO THE RWY BECAUSE THE HOLD LINE IS SO FAR BACK FROM THE RWY.

Narrative: TAXIED OUT FROM GATE AND WERE TOLD TO FOLLOW AN ACR JET IN FRONT OF US TO RWY 28C VIA TXWY E AT PITTSBURGH. FOLLOWING THE JET, THEY CROSSED THE HOLD SHORT LINE FOR RWY 28C AND, NOT PAYING ATTN, WE FOLLOWED THEM ACROSS IT AS WELL. THEY GOT CLRED TO POS AND HOLD AND I STOPPED. WHEN I REALIZED WHAT HAPPENED I WAS AT LEAST A PLANE LENGTH ACROSS. THE HOLD SHORT LINE IS SO FAR BACK THAT WE WERE NOT AWARE OF ITS POS. WE DIDN'T INFRINGE ON ANY RWY AND ATC SAID NOTHING ABOUT IT TO US OR TO THE ACR. THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME I CAN REMEMBER DEPARTING RWY 28C AT PITTSBURGH. I THINK SOMETHING SHOULD BE NOTED ABOUT THE HOLD SHORT LINE. I SPOKE TO FELLOW CREW MEMBERS AND THEY IMMEDIATELY KNEW WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT, SINCE THEY HAVE EXPERIENCED THE SAME SIT THEMSELVES.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.