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Attributes | |
ACN | 398063 |
Time | |
Date | 199803 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dca |
State Reference | DC |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Gulfstream IV |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | ground other : taxi |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 95 flight time total : 12324 flight time type : 376 |
ASRS Report | 398063 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 10050 flight time type : 500 |
ASRS Report | 398064 |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Situations | |
Airport | other physical facility procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
I was acting as captain (PNF) of a gulfstream iv operated under far part 91, flying from hpn to dca. We landed at dca on runway 15. The tower controller told us to clear at any right which would have been runway 21 or at the end of runway 15 onto taxiway F. He also instructed us to hold short of runway 18/36. We acknowledged his clearance with a readback of 'roger, cleared any right hold short runway 18.' as we approached the intersection of runway 3/21 on taxiway F, we saw a hold short sign and markings for runway 3/21. My first officer, who was the PF, asked if we were cleared onto runway 3/21. I stated, 'yes, we were told to hold short of runway 18/36.' as we continued across the runway 3/21 hold short line and stopped the aircraft on runway 3/21 short of runway 18/36, I saw and commented to my first officer that there was an air carrier aircraft departing from runway 18 and that a B727 was on a short final. At this time the tower controller told us again to hold short of runway 18/36 -- we indicated to him that we were stopped and holding short of runway 18/36. He then told us we had crossed the hold short line for runway 18/36 and then immediately told the B727 to go around due to an aircraft over the hold short line. After the B727 went around, he then cleared us via a left turn down runway 21 with a right turn onto the main ramp, and then told us to contact the ground controller when on the main ramp. We then taxied into signature. After deplaning our passenger, I went into the FBO and contacted the tower supervisor. I asked him if it would be possible for us to come up to the tower and talk to him about the problem we just had. During our meeting with the tower supervisor and the tower controller that had handled us, we indicated to them that we understood the clearance as 'to hold short of runway 18/36 and we could taxi onto runway 3/21 at our discretion.' they said, 'you're correct.' we then stated that we did not see a hold short line or signage for a hold short line while we were on taxiway F for runway 18/36. We also indicated to him that we thought we had stopped at an appropriate safe distance from runway 18/36. The tower supervisor told us that the hold short line for runway 18/36 had been removed by the airport. As we looked down from the tower onto taxiway F you could see where a hold short line had been removed. I asked him if there was going to be a problem regarding this matter. He indicated 'no.' I told him that I was going to file a NASA report regarding this matter. I believe that my aircraft at no time was in an unsafe position or operated in an unsafe manner, as to cause a potential hazard to any aircraft on runway 18. I think this problem could be corrected by installing appropriate signage and markings indicating where the hold short line for runway 18/36 is when taxiing on taxiway F. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter states that he also spoke with his company regarding the incident and the lack of hold short line at runway 18/36. From the tower the old line which has been eliminated is still very visible as a black area, but not down at the level of the taxiway. The signage that coordinated with the former hold short line has been removed. Reporter had not taxied as far as the old hold line because he wanted to remain further back from the runway. The controller, however, expected him to hold at the runway 3/21 hold line and sighted him beyond that position. That is why he initiated the go around. The clearance did not specify that holding point and that is what caused the confusion. There is a holding line for runway 18/36 placed actually on runway 3/21 but it is located prior to the point of taxiway F crossing runway 3/21. This was not visible from the aircraft position. Reporter is adamant about trying to correct this so that no one else will have the problem, and no aircraft will be sent around unnecessarily again.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLC OF GULFSTREAM IV RECEIVES A TAXI CLRNC TO HOLD SHORT OF RWYS 18-36 WHICH INTERSECTS WITH RWY 3-21 CLOSE TO THE TXWY XING. FLC HOLDS SHORT PRIOR TO RWY 18-36 BUT SEES NO HOLD LINE. AN ACR IS SENT AROUND. CTLR EXPECTED FLC TO HOLD SHORT AT THE RWY 3-21 HOLD LINE BUT DID NOT STATE THIS.
Narrative: I WAS ACTING AS CAPT (PNF) OF A GULFSTREAM IV OPERATED UNDER FAR PART 91, FLYING FROM HPN TO DCA. WE LANDED AT DCA ON RWY 15. THE TWR CTLR TOLD US TO CLR AT ANY R WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN RWY 21 OR AT THE END OF RWY 15 ONTO TXWY F. HE ALSO INSTRUCTED US TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 18/36. WE ACKNOWLEDGED HIS CLRNC WITH A READBACK OF 'ROGER, CLRED ANY R HOLD SHORT RWY 18.' AS WE APCHED THE INTXN OF RWY 3/21 ON TXWY F, WE SAW A HOLD SHORT SIGN AND MARKINGS FOR RWY 3/21. MY FO, WHO WAS THE PF, ASKED IF WE WERE CLRED ONTO RWY 3/21. I STATED, 'YES, WE WERE TOLD TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 18/36.' AS WE CONTINUED ACROSS THE RWY 3/21 HOLD SHORT LINE AND STOPPED THE ACFT ON RWY 3/21 SHORT OF RWY 18/36, I SAW AND COMMENTED TO MY FO THAT THERE WAS AN ACR ACFT DEPARTING FROM RWY 18 AND THAT A B727 WAS ON A SHORT FINAL. AT THIS TIME THE TWR CTLR TOLD US AGAIN TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 18/36 -- WE INDICATED TO HIM THAT WE WERE STOPPED AND HOLDING SHORT OF RWY 18/36. HE THEN TOLD US WE HAD CROSSED THE HOLD SHORT LINE FOR RWY 18/36 AND THEN IMMEDIATELY TOLD THE B727 TO GAR DUE TO AN ACFT OVER THE HOLD SHORT LINE. AFTER THE B727 WENT AROUND, HE THEN CLRED US VIA A L TURN DOWN RWY 21 WITH A R TURN ONTO THE MAIN RAMP, AND THEN TOLD US TO CONTACT THE GND CTLR WHEN ON THE MAIN RAMP. WE THEN TAXIED INTO SIGNATURE. AFTER DEPLANING OUR PAX, I WENT INTO THE FBO AND CONTACTED THE TWR SUPVR. I ASKED HIM IF IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE FOR US TO COME UP TO THE TWR AND TALK TO HIM ABOUT THE PROB WE JUST HAD. DURING OUR MEETING WITH THE TWR SUPVR AND THE TWR CTLR THAT HAD HANDLED US, WE INDICATED TO THEM THAT WE UNDERSTOOD THE CLRNC AS 'TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 18/36 AND WE COULD TAXI ONTO RWY 3/21 AT OUR DISCRETION.' THEY SAID, 'YOU'RE CORRECT.' WE THEN STATED THAT WE DID NOT SEE A HOLD SHORT LINE OR SIGNAGE FOR A HOLD SHORT LINE WHILE WE WERE ON TXWY F FOR RWY 18/36. WE ALSO INDICATED TO HIM THAT WE THOUGHT WE HAD STOPPED AT AN APPROPRIATE SAFE DISTANCE FROM RWY 18/36. THE TWR SUPVR TOLD US THAT THE HOLD SHORT LINE FOR RWY 18/36 HAD BEEN REMOVED BY THE ARPT. AS WE LOOKED DOWN FROM THE TWR ONTO TXWY F YOU COULD SEE WHERE A HOLD SHORT LINE HAD BEEN REMOVED. I ASKED HIM IF THERE WAS GOING TO BE A PROB REGARDING THIS MATTER. HE INDICATED 'NO.' I TOLD HIM THAT I WAS GOING TO FILE A NASA RPT REGARDING THIS MATTER. I BELIEVE THAT MY ACFT AT NO TIME WAS IN AN UNSAFE POS OR OPERATED IN AN UNSAFE MANNER, AS TO CAUSE A POTENTIAL HAZARD TO ANY ACFT ON RWY 18. I THINK THIS PROB COULD BE CORRECTED BY INSTALLING APPROPRIATE SIGNAGE AND MARKINGS INDICATING WHERE THE HOLD SHORT LINE FOR RWY 18/36 IS WHEN TAXIING ON TXWY F. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR STATES THAT HE ALSO SPOKE WITH HIS COMPANY REGARDING THE INCIDENT AND THE LACK OF HOLD SHORT LINE AT RWY 18/36. FROM THE TWR THE OLD LINE WHICH HAS BEEN ELIMINATED IS STILL VERY VISIBLE AS A BLACK AREA, BUT NOT DOWN AT THE LEVEL OF THE TXWY. THE SIGNAGE THAT COORDINATED WITH THE FORMER HOLD SHORT LINE HAS BEEN REMOVED. RPTR HAD NOT TAXIED AS FAR AS THE OLD HOLD LINE BECAUSE HE WANTED TO REMAIN FURTHER BACK FROM THE RWY. THE CTLR, HOWEVER, EXPECTED HIM TO HOLD AT THE RWY 3/21 HOLD LINE AND SIGHTED HIM BEYOND THAT POS. THAT IS WHY HE INITIATED THE GAR. THE CLRNC DID NOT SPECIFY THAT HOLDING POINT AND THAT IS WHAT CAUSED THE CONFUSION. THERE IS A HOLDING LINE FOR RWY 18/36 PLACED ACTUALLY ON RWY 3/21 BUT IT IS LOCATED PRIOR TO THE POINT OF TXWY F XING RWY 3/21. THIS WAS NOT VISIBLE FROM THE ACFT POS. RPTR IS ADAMANT ABOUT TRYING TO CORRECT THIS SO THAT NO ONE ELSE WILL HAVE THE PROB, AND NO ACFT WILL BE SENT AROUND UNNECESSARILY AGAIN.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.