Narrative:

While cruising at 43000 feet on the arrival to ptk we started getting turbulence from the upwind convective activity. I called in a request for 45000 feet; and in a 'don't bother me now I am busy voice'; I was told to 'standby'. A little later we were given a vector for our upcoming descent. I replied that I really wanted to climb to avoid the convective weather that we were approaching. The controller's response was that we could not have higher because of upcoming descent crossing restrictions and traffic. I thought that was unsafe and tried to talk the controller into keeping us above the weather until we passed it. He said that was not possible. I said I would refuse the descent clearance. Then the conversation went downhill from there.he questioned my judgement about accepting an as yet issued descent. I reiterated that I was not going to descend into the tops of thunderstorms and asked how he could suggest that. He replied that he was not going to 'argue over the line' and gave us a vector to the west; and told us to expect holding; which we accepted. Other crews on the frequency then started making comments along the lines of 'knock it off guys' etc. Other crews on the frequency were asking for deviations and altitude changes to avoid the weather as well. We were handed off to another sector while still on the vector.this controller was asking for pireps about the weather which kind of made me feel that the center did not know about the convective activity or at least the extent of it. We never did hold. We made all the altitude crossing restrictions that were assigned and we flew over and around all the weather. I wish that my conversation with the controller had not turned sour. I'll take responsibility for that. I do feel like he was an angry young man though. Being told that we have to fly through dangerous weather; whether it is for crossing altitudes; staying on routes; etc. Happens all too often. More and more it seems that pilots are not allowed to be part of the decision making process. That like sheep we should just go where we are told.if the controller had discussed what we could do; he would have found out that once past the weather we could have expedited a descent to make all the crossing restrictions. If need be we could have flown to northern michigan and turned around and came back; approaching the detroit area from the north. But alas I am dreaming; the FAA must not allow outside of the box thinking. Three weeks ago I avoided a nightmare of vectors; holding; route changes and working through weather that went from west of our destination; to the north of it; by going south. Center's idea was to get everybody to penetrate the weather northwest of that place. No one was allowed to go south. I changed our destination to an airport south of where we wanted to go. The controller was at first bothered by me asking for the request; as stated by him he was just too busy. But once he heard that we wanted to go south and out of his hair he was just too happy to help. A vector to the south and a frequency change and we were gone. The rest of that trip was clear of the weather on clear laid back frequencies. Once we got close to our new destination where we were fully prepared to land if need be we asked for a reroute to our original destination. That was given with the laughing comment about why we waited so long to ask. The arrival was unencumbered with any other traffic; as none of the stuff we were a part of earlier was getting through the weather at all.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: Gulfstream V flight crew reported they refused a descent clearance because it would have placed them into convective weather.

Narrative: While cruising at 43000 feet on the arrival to PTK we started getting turbulence from the upwind convective activity. I called in a request for 45000 feet; and in a 'don't bother me now I am busy voice'; I was told to 'Standby'. A little later we were given a vector for our upcoming descent. I replied that I really wanted to climb to avoid the convective weather that we were approaching. The controller's response was that we could not have higher because of upcoming descent crossing restrictions and traffic. I thought that was unsafe and tried to talk the controller into keeping us above the weather until we passed it. He said that was not possible. I said I would refuse the descent clearance. Then the conversation went downhill from there.He questioned my judgement about accepting an as yet issued descent. I reiterated that I was not going to descend into the tops of Thunderstorms and asked how he could suggest that. He replied that he was not going to 'argue over the line' and gave us a vector to the west; and told us to expect holding; which we accepted. Other crews on the frequency then started making comments along the lines of 'Knock it off guys' etc. Other crews on the frequency were asking for deviations and altitude changes to avoid the weather as well. We were handed off to another sector while still on the vector.This controller was asking for PIREPs about the weather which kind of made me feel that the Center did not know about the convective activity or at least the extent of it. We never did hold. We made all the altitude crossing restrictions that were assigned and we flew over and around all the weather. I wish that my conversation with the controller had not turned sour. I'll take responsibility for that. I do feel like he was an angry young man though. Being told that we have to fly through dangerous weather; whether it is for crossing altitudes; staying on routes; etc. happens all too often. More and more it seems that pilots are not allowed to be part of the decision making process. That like sheep we should just go where we are told.If the controller had discussed what we could do; he would have found out that once past the weather we could have expedited a descent to make all the crossing restrictions. If need be we could have flown to Northern Michigan and turned around and came back; approaching the Detroit area from the North. But alas I am dreaming; the FAA must not allow outside of the box thinking. Three weeks ago I avoided a nightmare of vectors; holding; route changes and working through weather that went from west of our destination; to the north of it; by going south. Center's idea was to get everybody to penetrate the weather northwest of that place. No one was allowed to go south. I changed our destination to an airport south of where we wanted to go. The controller was at first bothered by me asking for the request; as stated by him he was just too busy. But once he heard that we wanted to go south and out of his hair he was just too happy to help. A vector to the south and a frequency change and we were gone. The rest of that trip was clear of the weather on clear laid back frequencies. Once we got close to our new destination where we were fully prepared to land if need be we asked for a reroute to our original destination. That was given with the laughing comment about why we waited so long to ask. The arrival was unencumbered with any other traffic; as none of the stuff we were a part of earlier was getting through the weather at all.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.