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Flight crew of an MD80 noticed that their altitude was 300 ft too low at the OM during an ILS approach when indicating on GS. Tower reported that the ILS NAVAID was indicating a green light. However, the flight crew overheard the tower advise an A300 to hold short of the runway and then noticed an A300 holding short beyond the ILS hold short line.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 403366 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199805 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : dfw |
| State Reference | TX |
| Altitude | msl bound lower : 2000 msl bound upper : 2000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tower : dfw |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach descent other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | A300 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | ground : holding |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| ASRS Report | 403366 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure |
| Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Navigational Facility |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
| Navigational Aid | Unspecified |
Narrative:
Location: outside jiffy. GS signal runway 17C brought us below jiffy crossing altitude approximately 300 ft. GS identify was good and tower reported GS was monitoring in the green. An A300 was holding short of runway 17C on the east side. Other aircraft reported the same thing after our landing. We reported it to tower. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter stated that the fact that several other aircraft were overheard on approach questioning the accuracy of the ILS since they were experiencing the same problem, it helped support his belief that the A300 airbus was holding short of the runway and beyond the ILS hold short line. He also stated that he overheard the tower instruct the A300 to hold short which brought the reporter's attention to the holding airbus. The reporter further stated that it is the policy of the tower to let aircraft go past the ILS hold short line when the WX is better than 800 ft 2 mi, which it apparently was at the time of this incident.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLC OF AN MD80 NOTICED THAT THEIR ALT WAS 300 FT TOO LOW AT THE OM DURING AN ILS APCH WHEN INDICATING ON GS. TWR RPTED THAT THE ILS NAVAID WAS INDICATING A GREEN LIGHT. HOWEVER, THE FLC OVERHEARD THE TWR ADVISE AN A300 TO HOLD SHORT OF THE RWY AND THEN NOTICED AN A300 HOLDING SHORT BEYOND THE ILS HOLD SHORT LINE.
Narrative: LOCATION: OUTSIDE JIFFY. GS SIGNAL RWY 17C BROUGHT US BELOW JIFFY XING ALT APPROX 300 FT. GS IDENT WAS GOOD AND TWR RPTED GS WAS MONITORING IN THE GREEN. AN A300 WAS HOLDING SHORT OF RWY 17C ON THE E SIDE. OTHER ACFT RPTED THE SAME THING AFTER OUR LNDG. WE RPTED IT TO TWR. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR STATED THAT THE FACT THAT SEVERAL OTHER ACFT WERE OVERHEARD ON APCH QUESTIONING THE ACCURACY OF THE ILS SINCE THEY WERE EXPERIENCING THE SAME PROB, IT HELPED SUPPORT HIS BELIEF THAT THE A300 AIRBUS WAS HOLDING SHORT OF THE RWY AND BEYOND THE ILS HOLD SHORT LINE. HE ALSO STATED THAT HE OVERHEARD THE TWR INSTRUCT THE A300 TO HOLD SHORT WHICH BROUGHT THE RPTR'S ATTN TO THE HOLDING AIRBUS. THE RPTR FURTHER STATED THAT IT IS THE POLICY OF THE TWR TO LET ACFT GO PAST THE ILS HOLD SHORT LINE WHEN THE WX IS BETTER THAN 800 FT 2 MI, WHICH IT APPARENTLY WAS AT THE TIME OF THIS INCIDENT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.