37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 406792 |
Time | |
Date | 199806 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dca |
State Reference | DC |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 9000 msl bound upper : 9000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : dca |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | DC-9 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Route In Use | arrival other enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : flight engineer pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 6010 |
ASRS Report | 406792 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Flight from bos-dca. Proceeding direct dca from bilit intersection. Descended to 9000 ft with approach control. Using lda/DME runway 18 approach at dca. Approximately 8-9 DME from dca VOR, we were given a heading of 330 degrees, basically a left downwind for the approach. As we started the turn it became obvious a small (thunderstorm) cell was directly on our course about 5 mi ahead. We requested a heading of 300 degrees or 360 degrees to avoid WX. The controller became agitated saying 'this heading is not for debate, turn left heading 260 degrees to avoid the P56 prohibited area.' we were in a right standard rate turn (to 330 degrees as assigned), so we immediately turned left to 260 degrees as instructed. No further incidents occurred and we landed. We both (pilots) have landed at dca hundreds of times and were well familiar with P56. The problem is approach when using runway 18 or runway 36 always brings aircraft from the east very close to the VOR before issuing turns to avoid P56. There literally is no room for error, ie, a heading delay for WX. I've had blocked radio xmissions at this point before and the controllers go berserk trying to get a heading to an aircraft. Something must be done to remedy this 'critical point' and situation, bringing aircraft close to P56 and then relying on a last moment immediate turn to avoid P56. More airspace incursions will occur until additional separation is added for aircraft arriving from the east.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR DC9 FO REQUIRED TO MAKE TIGHT TURN AND OPPOSITE CHANGE OF COURSE WITH LATE ATC INSTRUCTION CHANGE, DUE TO PROX OF PROHIBITED AIRSPACE AND WX AVOIDANCE. FO CONCERNED THAT ATC WAITS TOO LONG TO TURN ACFT, 'PANICKING' ON FREQ, IF THERE IS COM CONGESTION.
Narrative: FLT FROM BOS-DCA. PROCEEDING DIRECT DCA FROM BILIT INTXN. DSNDED TO 9000 FT WITH APCH CTL. USING LDA/DME RWY 18 APCH AT DCA. APPROX 8-9 DME FROM DCA VOR, WE WERE GIVEN A HDG OF 330 DEGS, BASICALLY A L DOWNWIND FOR THE APCH. AS WE STARTED THE TURN IT BECAME OBVIOUS A SMALL (TSTM) CELL WAS DIRECTLY ON OUR COURSE ABOUT 5 MI AHEAD. WE REQUESTED A HDG OF 300 DEGS OR 360 DEGS TO AVOID WX. THE CTLR BECAME AGITATED SAYING 'THIS HDG IS NOT FOR DEBATE, TURN L HDG 260 DEGS TO AVOID THE P56 PROHIBITED AREA.' WE WERE IN A R STANDARD RATE TURN (TO 330 DEGS AS ASSIGNED), SO WE IMMEDIATELY TURNED L TO 260 DEGS AS INSTRUCTED. NO FURTHER INCIDENTS OCCURRED AND WE LANDED. WE BOTH (PLTS) HAVE LANDED AT DCA HUNDREDS OF TIMES AND WERE WELL FAMILIAR WITH P56. THE PROB IS APCH WHEN USING RWY 18 OR RWY 36 ALWAYS BRINGS ACFT FROM THE E VERY CLOSE TO THE VOR BEFORE ISSUING TURNS TO AVOID P56. THERE LITERALLY IS NO ROOM FOR ERROR, IE, A HDG DELAY FOR WX. I'VE HAD BLOCKED RADIO XMISSIONS AT THIS POINT BEFORE AND THE CTLRS GO BERSERK TRYING TO GET A HDG TO AN ACFT. SOMETHING MUST BE DONE TO REMEDY THIS 'CRITICAL POINT' AND SIT, BRINGING ACFT CLOSE TO P56 AND THEN RELYING ON A LAST MOMENT IMMEDIATE TURN TO AVOID P56. MORE AIRSPACE INCURSIONS WILL OCCUR UNTIL ADDITIONAL SEPARATION IS ADDED FOR ACFT ARRIVING FROM THE E.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.