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Attributes | |
ACN | 408602 |
Time | |
Date | 199807 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dca |
State Reference | DC |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 7000 msl bound upper : 7000 |
Environment | |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : dca |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | cruise other descent : approach descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | cruise other descent : approach descent other |
Route In Use | arrival other arrival star : star |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 408602 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
ASRS Report | 408603 |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : unspecified other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : unable |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Deviation |
Narrative:
Flight X mia-dca. After deviating around numerous WX cells, was established on the irons 3 arrival to dca. Handoff was made from ZDC to dca approach control. Dca approach cleared flight X direct to the dca VOR and descend from 10000 ft to 7000 ft. The aircraft ahead was given a 330 degree heading. At approximately 10 DME, the first officer and I discussed what approach may do with us as we approached sammo. Sammo fix shows a flag (C) as 'heading for vectors to final approach course.' as we passed sammo, my first officer made efforts to contact approach, however, the closer we got to the VOR, the busier the approach frequency got. I had slowed the aircraft to 210 KIAS at approximately 10 DME in anticipation of a slam dunk. As we entered the cone at the VOR, my first officer was able to break in and asked about the top of the restr area. There was no response from approach. My first officer then asked for a heading. There was a hesitation, and we were told to maintain our heading. My first officer expressed his concern to me about our entering the restr area P56. I agreed that we probably had. The remainder of the approach and landing via rossyln lda runway 18 was uneventful. After landing, we were given a TRACON phone number and advised to call. I called and was told we had a P56 violation. I talked to the supervisor and explained the above. I told him the approximately time and asked him to review the tape. He advised me to call back in 20 mins. I called from the hotel and was told that a controller deviation would be issued. However, several issues are unresolved: 1) nowhere in commercial pubs are there restr altitudes for P56 except on the hi-4 chart. (Goodbye hi- 4 at the start of the STAR.) 2) nowhere on air carrier pages are there restr altitudes depicted except for page 10-7V -- mt vernon P73, 1500 ft. The above add-on's would surely enhance crew awareness. 3) the FAA should establish a printed vector heading off sammo to prevent incursions during high controller workload. 4) guidance from air carrier, ie, an escape procedure, as this arrival leads our crews into potential violations.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLT INBOUND TO DCA ON THE IRON 3 ARR WAS DSNDED TO 7000 FT AND MAY HAVE ENTERED PROHIBITED AIRSPACE. PLTS HAD DIFFICULT COMMUNICATING WITH APCH CTL FOR VECTOR INSTRUCTIONS DUE TO FREQ CONGESTION.
Narrative: FLT X MIA-DCA. AFTER DEVIATING AROUND NUMEROUS WX CELLS, WAS ESTABLISHED ON THE IRONS 3 ARR TO DCA. HDOF WAS MADE FROM ZDC TO DCA APCH CTL. DCA APCH CLRED FLT X DIRECT TO THE DCA VOR AND DSND FROM 10000 FT TO 7000 FT. THE ACFT AHEAD WAS GIVEN A 330 DEG HDG. AT APPROX 10 DME, THE FO AND I DISCUSSED WHAT APCH MAY DO WITH US AS WE APCHED SAMMO. SAMMO FIX SHOWS A FLAG (C) AS 'HDG FOR VECTORS TO FINAL APCH COURSE.' AS WE PASSED SAMMO, MY FO MADE EFFORTS TO CONTACT APCH, HOWEVER, THE CLOSER WE GOT TO THE VOR, THE BUSIER THE APCH FREQ GOT. I HAD SLOWED THE ACFT TO 210 KIAS AT APPROX 10 DME IN ANTICIPATION OF A SLAM DUNK. AS WE ENTERED THE CONE AT THE VOR, MY FO WAS ABLE TO BREAK IN AND ASKED ABOUT THE TOP OF THE RESTR AREA. THERE WAS NO RESPONSE FROM APCH. MY FO THEN ASKED FOR A HDG. THERE WAS A HESITATION, AND WE WERE TOLD TO MAINTAIN OUR HDG. MY FO EXPRESSED HIS CONCERN TO ME ABOUT OUR ENTERING THE RESTR AREA P56. I AGREED THAT WE PROBABLY HAD. THE REMAINDER OF THE APCH AND LNDG VIA ROSSYLN LDA RWY 18 WAS UNEVENTFUL. AFTER LNDG, WE WERE GIVEN A TRACON PHONE NUMBER AND ADVISED TO CALL. I CALLED AND WAS TOLD WE HAD A P56 VIOLATION. I TALKED TO THE SUPVR AND EXPLAINED THE ABOVE. I TOLD HIM THE APPROX TIME AND ASKED HIM TO REVIEW THE TAPE. HE ADVISED ME TO CALL BACK IN 20 MINS. I CALLED FROM THE HOTEL AND WAS TOLD THAT A CTLR DEV WOULD BE ISSUED. HOWEVER, SEVERAL ISSUES ARE UNRESOLVED: 1) NOWHERE IN COMMERCIAL PUBS ARE THERE RESTR ALTS FOR P56 EXCEPT ON THE HI-4 CHART. (GOODBYE HI- 4 AT THE START OF THE STAR.) 2) NOWHERE ON ACR PAGES ARE THERE RESTR ALTS DEPICTED EXCEPT FOR PAGE 10-7V -- MT VERNON P73, 1500 FT. THE ABOVE ADD-ON'S WOULD SURELY ENHANCE CREW AWARENESS. 3) THE FAA SHOULD ESTABLISH A PRINTED VECTOR HDG OFF SAMMO TO PREVENT INCURSIONS DURING HIGH CTLR WORKLOAD. 4) GUIDANCE FROM ACR, IE, AN ESCAPE PROC, AS THIS ARR LEADS OUR CREWS INTO POTENTIAL VIOLATIONS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.