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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 410023 |
Time | |
Date | 199808 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : hel |
State Reference | FO |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 700 msl bound upper : 1000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : hel |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B747-100 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff climbout : initial |
Route In Use | departure : noise abatement departure other departure sid : sid |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 10800 flight time type : 4500 |
ASRS Report | 410023 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : undershoot non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Chart Or Publication |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Situations | |
Airport | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Publication | Unspecified |
Narrative:
Vihti 3E departure SID is written inconsistently. Written description indicates left turn to 275 degrees after 2.1 DME and 1000 ft, but graphic is less clear. The 'at least 1000 ft' label points to 2.1 DME arc and start of turn. We were at about 700 ft when 2.1 DME passed. SID requires 304 ft per NM which we can and did do, but 1000 ft by 1/2 mi beyond runway end is impossible. We should have told tower we were unable restr, but the text didn't indicate there to be one. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the captain said that it is almost impossible to cross the 2.1 DME at 1000 ft before starting the turn. One is starting with a handicap since the runway departure end is about 9500 ft from the VOR leaving but about 1000 ft more for a 2.1 DME readout. The aircraft cannot achieve the altitude required at the 2.1 DME. Reporter was counseled to advise his fellow pilots and his union of the problem since the procedure as designed is a noise procedure. Reporter said that the crews would not get relief or a change in the procedure from the helsinki government because of the requirement for noise abatement in the 5 NM range of the airport. The controller did not say anything to the reporter when he only achieved 700 ft MSL at the 2.1 DME. Reporter admitted he should have asked for relief from the 1000 ft requirement.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B747 FREIGHTER FAILS TO MAKE THE ALT XING RESTR AT THE 2 PT 1 DME OFF OF HEL, FO. RPTR CITES A PROB WITH THE CLB RATE NEEDED FOR COMPLIANCE WITH THE SID.
Narrative: VIHTI 3E DEP SID IS WRITTEN INCONSISTENTLY. WRITTEN DESCRIPTION INDICATES L TURN TO 275 DEGS AFTER 2.1 DME AND 1000 FT, BUT GRAPHIC IS LESS CLR. THE 'AT LEAST 1000 FT' LABEL POINTS TO 2.1 DME ARC AND START OF TURN. WE WERE AT ABOUT 700 FT WHEN 2.1 DME PASSED. SID REQUIRES 304 FT PER NM WHICH WE CAN AND DID DO, BUT 1000 FT BY 1/2 MI BEYOND RWY END IS IMPOSSIBLE. WE SHOULD HAVE TOLD TWR WE WERE UNABLE RESTR, BUT THE TEXT DIDN'T INDICATE THERE TO BE ONE. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE CAPT SAID THAT IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO CROSS THE 2.1 DME AT 1000 FT BEFORE STARTING THE TURN. ONE IS STARTING WITH A HANDICAP SINCE THE RWY DEP END IS ABOUT 9500 FT FROM THE VOR LEAVING BUT ABOUT 1000 FT MORE FOR A 2.1 DME READOUT. THE ACFT CANNOT ACHIEVE THE ALT REQUIRED AT THE 2.1 DME. RPTR WAS COUNSELED TO ADVISE HIS FELLOW PLTS AND HIS UNION OF THE PROB SINCE THE PROC AS DESIGNED IS A NOISE PROC. RPTR SAID THAT THE CREWS WOULD NOT GET RELIEF OR A CHANGE IN THE PROC FROM THE HELSINKI GOV BECAUSE OF THE REQUIREMENT FOR NOISE ABATEMENT IN THE 5 NM RANGE OF THE ARPT. THE CTLR DID NOT SAY ANYTHING TO THE RPTR WHEN HE ONLY ACHIEVED 700 FT MSL AT THE 2.1 DME. RPTR ADMITTED HE SHOULD HAVE ASKED FOR RELIEF FROM THE 1000 FT REQUIREMENT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.