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A B737-300 flight crew wonders where the hold short lines are for runway 28 at bwi during a night operation. PIC holds 50 ft short of runway edge lights. Ground controller wonders if they are clear of landing traffic and the runway confines.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 415604 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199809 |
| Day | Sun |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | atc facility : bwi airport : bwi |
| State Reference | MD |
| Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Night |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737-300 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | Other |
| Flight Phase | ground : holding ground other : taxi |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach landing other |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 3500 flight time type : 1500 |
| ASRS Report | 415604 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 8500 flight time type : 6500 |
| ASRS Report | 415294 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | non adherence other other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | other |
| Consequence | Other |
| Miss Distance | horizontal : 90 vertical : 0 |
| Supplementary | |
| Primary Problem | Airport |
| Air Traffic Incident | other |
| Situations | |
| Airport | other physical facility |
Narrative:
Sep/xa/98 I was the first officer on a B737-300 bwi-mht. We were cleared to taxi to runway 28. Taxiway C is the normal taxi route. It was notamed closed, and also on ATIS. We used taxiway U. The captain and I were careful to be sure we were on the proper taxiway. We were on taxiway U. We ran the pretkof checklist. We were directed to hold short of runway 28 due to traffic on final. The taxi light was on while taxiing. We acknowledged and continued to an area where it looked like the hold short area would be. Neither of us saw any hold short bars at any time. We were both looking outside the whole time. The pretkof checklist was performed long before the holding area. We held short 50 ft from the runway edge lights -- well clear of the runway. We could see the traffic on final and were confident we were well clear of the runway. Tower calmly queried us if we were 'on the runway.' we truthfully replied 'no, we were clear.' the traffic on final landed without any events, normally. That's all that was said. We were cleared for takeoff and departed for mht. The hold short area is pitch dark. No 'wigwags' or red illumination lights prior to the runway. Neither the captain nor myself saw any hold bars or lights. And we watched the entire time until we reached what looked like a safe distance from the runway. After tower queried us we thought 'maybe we crossed the hold short bars' painted on the pavement. I don't know if we did, but I don't recall ever seeing any bars. We were never a factor to the plane on final and were well clear.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B737-300 FLC WONDERS WHERE THE HOLD SHORT LINES ARE FOR RWY 28 AT BWI DURING A NIGHT OP. PIC HOLDS 50 FT SHORT OF RWY EDGE LIGHTS. GND CTLR WONDERS IF THEY ARE CLR OF LNDG TFC AND THE RWY CONFINES.
Narrative: SEP/XA/98 I WAS THE FO ON A B737-300 BWI-MHT. WE WERE CLRED TO TAXI TO RWY 28. TXWY C IS THE NORMAL TAXI RTE. IT WAS NOTAMED CLOSED, AND ALSO ON ATIS. WE USED TXWY U. THE CAPT AND I WERE CAREFUL TO BE SURE WE WERE ON THE PROPER TXWY. WE WERE ON TXWY U. WE RAN THE PRETKOF CHKLIST. WE WERE DIRECTED TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 28 DUE TO TFC ON FINAL. THE TAXI LIGHT WAS ON WHILE TAXIING. WE ACKNOWLEDGED AND CONTINUED TO AN AREA WHERE IT LOOKED LIKE THE HOLD SHORT AREA WOULD BE. NEITHER OF US SAW ANY HOLD SHORT BARS AT ANY TIME. WE WERE BOTH LOOKING OUTSIDE THE WHOLE TIME. THE PRETKOF CHKLIST WAS PERFORMED LONG BEFORE THE HOLDING AREA. WE HELD SHORT 50 FT FROM THE RWY EDGE LIGHTS -- WELL CLR OF THE RWY. WE COULD SEE THE TFC ON FINAL AND WERE CONFIDENT WE WERE WELL CLR OF THE RWY. TWR CALMLY QUERIED US IF WE WERE 'ON THE RWY.' WE TRUTHFULLY REPLIED 'NO, WE WERE CLR.' THE TFC ON FINAL LANDED WITHOUT ANY EVENTS, NORMALLY. THAT'S ALL THAT WAS SAID. WE WERE CLRED FOR TKOF AND DEPARTED FOR MHT. THE HOLD SHORT AREA IS PITCH DARK. NO 'WIGWAGS' OR RED ILLUMINATION LIGHTS PRIOR TO THE RWY. NEITHER THE CAPT NOR MYSELF SAW ANY HOLD BARS OR LIGHTS. AND WE WATCHED THE ENTIRE TIME UNTIL WE REACHED WHAT LOOKED LIKE A SAFE DISTANCE FROM THE RWY. AFTER TWR QUERIED US WE THOUGHT 'MAYBE WE CROSSED THE HOLD SHORT BARS' PAINTED ON THE PAVEMENT. I DON'T KNOW IF WE DID, BUT I DON'T RECALL EVER SEEING ANY BARS. WE WERE NEVER A FACTOR TO THE PLANE ON FINAL AND WERE WELL CLR.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.