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Attributes | |
ACN | 418542 |
Time | |
Date | 199810 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : stl |
State Reference | MO |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : stl tower : ilg |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-500 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | DC-9 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 225 flight time total : 15000 flight time type : 11000 |
ASRS Report | 418542 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : unable |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Narrative:
Stl ATIS reported approachs to ILS runway 12R and lda DME runway 12L. We were told to expect the lda DME runway 12L. As we turned and intercepted the lda localizer, approach asked us to report DC9 traffic at 2 O'clock less than 1 mi. We searched but couldn't see the DC9, which made us pretty uncomfortable. The first officer is looking for the traffic on his side trying to fly the approach and configure the aircraft because, as we can't see the DC9, the controller is giving us stepdown altitudes to keep separation from the DC9 and we're going above a normal glide path. We finally see the DC9 (he's mostly below us) and are cleared for a visual approach to runway 12L. After a moderate high dive we land safely. Of the 3 times I've done this approach (lda DME runway 12L, simultaneous approachs to ILS runway 12R) 2 have been pretty uncomfortable (looking for traffic, looking for the runway, non precision, controller insisting you see traffic so he can clear you for a visual approach, high dive, etc). For these reasons, plus the approach paths converge and the traffic is close, I submit that this is an unsafe procedure. It seems clear that safety is being compromised in order to move more traffic onto the stl airport.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLC INBOUND TO STL ARE ASSIGNED RWY 12L AND A DC9 WAS SET UP FOR AN APCH TO RWY 12R. CTLR MAINTAINED VERT SEPARATION BTWN THE 2 ACFT UNTIL THE RPTR AND FO COULD SPOT THE DC9. RPTR CLAIMS IT TOOK THEM SOME TIME TO FINALLY SPOT THE DC9 CAUSING THEM TO END UP VERY HIGH ON APCH.
Narrative: STL ATIS RPTED APCHS TO ILS RWY 12R AND LDA DME RWY 12L. WE WERE TOLD TO EXPECT THE LDA DME RWY 12L. AS WE TURNED AND INTERCEPTED THE LDA LOC, APCH ASKED US TO RPT DC9 TFC AT 2 O'CLOCK LESS THAN 1 MI. WE SEARCHED BUT COULDN'T SEE THE DC9, WHICH MADE US PRETTY UNCOMFORTABLE. THE FO IS LOOKING FOR THE TFC ON HIS SIDE TRYING TO FLY THE APCH AND CONFIGURE THE ACFT BECAUSE, AS WE CAN'T SEE THE DC9, THE CTLR IS GIVING US STEPDOWN ALTS TO KEEP SEPARATION FROM THE DC9 AND WE'RE GOING ABOVE A NORMAL GLIDE PATH. WE FINALLY SEE THE DC9 (HE'S MOSTLY BELOW US) AND ARE CLRED FOR A VISUAL APCH TO RWY 12L. AFTER A MODERATE HIGH DIVE WE LAND SAFELY. OF THE 3 TIMES I'VE DONE THIS APCH (LDA DME RWY 12L, SIMULTANEOUS APCHS TO ILS RWY 12R) 2 HAVE BEEN PRETTY UNCOMFORTABLE (LOOKING FOR TFC, LOOKING FOR THE RWY, NON PRECISION, CTLR INSISTING YOU SEE TFC SO HE CAN CLR YOU FOR A VISUAL APCH, HIGH DIVE, ETC). FOR THESE REASONS, PLUS THE APCH PATHS CONVERGE AND THE TFC IS CLOSE, I SUBMIT THAT THIS IS AN UNSAFE PROC. IT SEEMS CLR THAT SAFETY IS BEING COMPROMISED IN ORDER TO MOVE MORE TFC ONTO THE STL ARPT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.