37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 421577 |
Time | |
Date | 199812 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 10000 msl bound upper : 10000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Route In Use | departure other departure sid : sid |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 25000 flight time type : 13000 |
ASRS Report | 421577 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | none taken : insufficient time other |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Air carrier abc, lax-ewr. We departed lax in a B737-800 aircraft. It was our first flight in this particular model. Very soon after takeoff, departure control gave us 180 degree turn to return to the VOR, as per the SID. Using the same criteria we would use for other B737's, we commenced the turn. The SID called for crossing the VOR at 10000 ft. It became obvious to us that the B737-800 model did not climb at the same rate as the smaller B737's and we had to work at making the restr. Departure control asked us several times if we would make the restr, and we told them we were trying. We did make the 10000 ft restr, but just barely. The problem arose when I asked my first officer for LNAV. Either he did not select it properly or did not check to see if it activated. I follow steering commands on my flight director, and that led us to depart from the SID. Center gave us a turn back on course, there were no conflicts with other aircraft. We apologized to center and they indicated there was no problem. Our workload was so intense trying to make their altitude restr, that I failed to monitor my first officer adequately. Also, the fact that we had not flown this model B737 contributed to our not being aware that the climb performance was not as good as the other B737's, and diverted our attention. Departure control was very professional, but like us, if they had known that the B737-800 could not perform as well as the lighter B737's, they probably would have given us a wider turn and more time to make the restr, thus making our workload easier. Even though there was no problem, I believe that a better understanding of the performance of a new aircraft relative to an older model, should be better understood by both pilots and controllers. I appreciate departure control's concerns and the manner in which they handled the situation.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737 CREW MISSED A DEPICTED TURN IN A SID.
Narrative: ACR ABC, LAX-EWR. WE DEPARTED LAX IN A B737-800 ACFT. IT WAS OUR FIRST FLT IN THIS PARTICULAR MODEL. VERY SOON AFTER TKOF, DEP CTL GAVE US 180 DEG TURN TO RETURN TO THE VOR, AS PER THE SID. USING THE SAME CRITERIA WE WOULD USE FOR OTHER B737'S, WE COMMENCED THE TURN. THE SID CALLED FOR XING THE VOR AT 10000 FT. IT BECAME OBVIOUS TO US THAT THE B737-800 MODEL DID NOT CLB AT THE SAME RATE AS THE SMALLER B737'S AND WE HAD TO WORK AT MAKING THE RESTR. DEP CTL ASKED US SEVERAL TIMES IF WE WOULD MAKE THE RESTR, AND WE TOLD THEM WE WERE TRYING. WE DID MAKE THE 10000 FT RESTR, BUT JUST BARELY. THE PROB AROSE WHEN I ASKED MY FO FOR LNAV. EITHER HE DID NOT SELECT IT PROPERLY OR DID NOT CHK TO SEE IF IT ACTIVATED. I FOLLOW STEERING COMMANDS ON MY FLT DIRECTOR, AND THAT LED US TO DEPART FROM THE SID. CTR GAVE US A TURN BACK ON COURSE, THERE WERE NO CONFLICTS WITH OTHER ACFT. WE APOLOGIZED TO CTR AND THEY INDICATED THERE WAS NO PROB. OUR WORKLOAD WAS SO INTENSE TRYING TO MAKE THEIR ALT RESTR, THAT I FAILED TO MONITOR MY FO ADEQUATELY. ALSO, THE FACT THAT WE HAD NOT FLOWN THIS MODEL B737 CONTRIBUTED TO OUR NOT BEING AWARE THAT THE CLB PERFORMANCE WAS NOT AS GOOD AS THE OTHER B737'S, AND DIVERTED OUR ATTN. DEP CTL WAS VERY PROFESSIONAL, BUT LIKE US, IF THEY HAD KNOWN THAT THE B737-800 COULD NOT PERFORM AS WELL AS THE LIGHTER B737'S, THEY PROBABLY WOULD HAVE GIVEN US A WIDER TURN AND MORE TIME TO MAKE THE RESTR, THUS MAKING OUR WORKLOAD EASIER. EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS NO PROB, I BELIEVE THAT A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE PERFORMANCE OF A NEW ACFT RELATIVE TO AN OLDER MODEL, SHOULD BE BETTER UNDERSTOOD BY BOTH PLTS AND CTLRS. I APPRECIATE DEP CTL'S CONCERNS AND THE MANNER IN WHICH THEY HANDLED THE SIT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.