2 CFI's on a training flight make 2 hard lndgs with heavy sideloads. They do not understand the reas...

Narrative:

Poor autoplt feedback led to 2 hard lndgs. I was flying with another CFI on a training flight (I am also a CFI). He landed the aircraft with a hard side load that frightened both of us. He came around to attempt another landing and again landed with a strong/hard side load. This was uncharacteristic for his lndgs. We discussed it and he felt controls felt weird. While taxiing back, the yoke would turn hard to one side or the other. We discussed the situation and I thought it might be a xctl problem since the rudder trim lacked a position indicator. We discussed the situation with the chief pilot and he said that there was no xlinkage between the rudder and ailerons. He said it was probably the autoplt. We went back to the aircraft and the autoplt was on and would have commanded a left turn on landing which is what occurred. Since I had never used the autoplt it was a surprise to me that it would command a heading change on landing. Additionally, the only indication that the autoplt was on was the switch position, ie, no annunciator. We had checked the autoplt off before takeoff. It must have come on at some point when one of us inadvertently bumped it. The on/off switch was too easily flipped. It only required a slight bump to engage. The switch should be designed better. My inexperience with any autoplt system led to my lack of understanding as to what could have caused this type of aileron displacement. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter states that the other pilot realized after checking the autoplt after the incident that he must have been fighting the autoplt all along believing that it was a wind he was fighting. When he released pressures just prior to landing the autoplt took over once again and caused the sideload landing. The switch is just something one must get acquainted with when operating this aircraft. The biggest help would be to have an annunciator to indicate the autoplt was activated.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: 2 CFI'S ON A TRAINING FLT MAKE 2 HARD LNDGS WITH HVY SIDELOADS. THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE REASON FOR THEM. CHIEF PLT HAS THEM INVESTIGATE AND THEY DISCOVER THE AUTOPLT SWITCH IS IN THE 'ON' POS.

Narrative: POOR AUTOPLT FEEDBACK LED TO 2 HARD LNDGS. I WAS FLYING WITH ANOTHER CFI ON A TRAINING FLT (I AM ALSO A CFI). HE LANDED THE ACFT WITH A HARD SIDE LOAD THAT FRIGHTENED BOTH OF US. HE CAME AROUND TO ATTEMPT ANOTHER LNDG AND AGAIN LANDED WITH A STRONG/HARD SIDE LOAD. THIS WAS UNCHARACTERISTIC FOR HIS LNDGS. WE DISCUSSED IT AND HE FELT CTLS FELT WEIRD. WHILE TAXIING BACK, THE YOKE WOULD TURN HARD TO ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER. WE DISCUSSED THE SIT AND I THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE A XCTL PROB SINCE THE RUDDER TRIM LACKED A POS INDICATOR. WE DISCUSSED THE SIT WITH THE CHIEF PLT AND HE SAID THAT THERE WAS NO XLINKAGE BTWN THE RUDDER AND AILERONS. HE SAID IT WAS PROBABLY THE AUTOPLT. WE WENT BACK TO THE ACFT AND THE AUTOPLT WAS ON AND WOULD HAVE COMMANDED A L TURN ON LNDG WHICH IS WHAT OCCURRED. SINCE I HAD NEVER USED THE AUTOPLT IT WAS A SURPRISE TO ME THAT IT WOULD COMMAND A HDG CHANGE ON LNDG. ADDITIONALLY, THE ONLY INDICATION THAT THE AUTOPLT WAS ON WAS THE SWITCH POS, IE, NO ANNUNCIATOR. WE HAD CHKED THE AUTOPLT OFF BEFORE TKOF. IT MUST HAVE COME ON AT SOME POINT WHEN ONE OF US INADVERTENTLY BUMPED IT. THE ON/OFF SWITCH WAS TOO EASILY FLIPPED. IT ONLY REQUIRED A SLIGHT BUMP TO ENGAGE. THE SWITCH SHOULD BE DESIGNED BETTER. MY INEXPERIENCE WITH ANY AUTOPLT SYS LED TO MY LACK OF UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHAT COULD HAVE CAUSED THIS TYPE OF AILERON DISPLACEMENT. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR STATES THAT THE OTHER PLT REALIZED AFTER CHKING THE AUTOPLT AFTER THE INCIDENT THAT HE MUST HAVE BEEN FIGHTING THE AUTOPLT ALL ALONG BELIEVING THAT IT WAS A WIND HE WAS FIGHTING. WHEN HE RELEASED PRESSURES JUST PRIOR TO LNDG THE AUTOPLT TOOK OVER ONCE AGAIN AND CAUSED THE SIDELOAD LNDG. THE SWITCH IS JUST SOMETHING ONE MUST GET ACQUAINTED WITH WHEN OPERATING THIS ACFT. THE BIGGEST HELP WOULD BE TO HAVE AN ANNUNCIATOR TO INDICATE THE AUTOPLT WAS ACTIVATED.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

Attributes
ACN	427310
Time
Date	199901
Day	Sun
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	airport : hef
State Reference	VA
Altitude	agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Operator	general aviation : personal
Make Model Name	Skyhawk 172/Cutlass 172
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 91
Flight Phase	landing other
Flight Plan	None
Person 1
Affiliation	Other
Function	observation : passenger observation : observer
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 11 flight time total : 716 flight time type : 60
ASRS Report	427310
Person 2
Affiliation	Other
Function	flight crew : single pilot
Events
Anomaly	aircraft equipment problem : less severe non adherence : far other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : anomaly accepted other
Consequence	Other
Supplementary
Air Traffic Incident	other

2 CFI's on a training flight make 2 hard lndgs with heavy sideloads. They do not understand the reason for them. Chief pilot has them investigate and they discover the autoplt switch is in the 'on' position.