37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 430116 |
Time | |
Date | 199903 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : oxr |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 5000 msl bound upper : 5000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | general aviation : instructional |
Flight Phase | other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | Other |
Function | flight crew : single pilot |
Qualification | pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 4918 flight time type : 2716 |
ASRS Report | 430116 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | controller : approach |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : unable |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Air Traffic Incident | other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Socal continually issues ATC clrncs to whp airport that are improper. The tower en route routings are not properly defined. For example, an IFR clearance from oxr or from lax will clear us to the whp airport, but the routing will not take us to an IAF. We would not know what to do in the event of lost communications unless we asked ATC. On several occasions, I have turned down these clrncs and have asked for amendments in case of lost communications. ATC has become increasingly belligerent about it and I have had to remind them that all I want to do is get to my destination safely rather than not have a plan of action in case of lost communication. I am sure that other routings within the socal tower en route control system are flawed. This imposes a great liability on all parties involved if an accident were to occur. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: talked to procedures specialist at TRACON. Facility has reviewed all of the tower en route's in the lax basin and is in the process of modifying the tower en route routing from oxr and cma to whp. This will allow the aircraft to fly from those airports via the vny 255 degree radial to the canog, the IAF, to whip. Specialist stated that this change should be effective with the next charting date. The initial clearance limit will be the airport of intended landing. The pilot has the option to request the IAF as the clearance limit.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: PLT COMPLAINT IS THE ROUTINGS THAT ARE GIVEN TO HIM TO FLY WITHIN THE LOS ANGELES BASIN ARE IMPROPER, FLAWED, AND DO NOT ADDRESS LOST COMS PROCS.
Narrative: SOCAL CONTINUALLY ISSUES ATC CLRNCS TO WHP ARPT THAT ARE IMPROPER. THE TWR ENRTE ROUTINGS ARE NOT PROPERLY DEFINED. FOR EXAMPLE, AN IFR CLRNC FROM OXR OR FROM LAX WILL CLR US TO THE WHP ARPT, BUT THE ROUTING WILL NOT TAKE US TO AN IAF. WE WOULD NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO IN THE EVENT OF LOST COMS UNLESS WE ASKED ATC. ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS, I HAVE TURNED DOWN THESE CLRNCS AND HAVE ASKED FOR AMENDMENTS IN CASE OF LOST COMS. ATC HAS BECOME INCREASINGLY BELLIGERENT ABOUT IT AND I HAVE HAD TO REMIND THEM THAT ALL I WANT TO DO IS GET TO MY DEST SAFELY RATHER THAN NOT HAVE A PLAN OF ACTION IN CASE OF LOST COM. I AM SURE THAT OTHER ROUTINGS WITHIN THE SOCAL TWR ENRTE CTL SYS ARE FLAWED. THIS IMPOSES A GREAT LIABILITY ON ALL PARTIES INVOLVED IF AN ACCIDENT WERE TO OCCUR. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: TALKED TO PROCS SPECIALIST AT TRACON. FACILITY HAS REVIEWED ALL OF THE TWR ENRTE'S IN THE LAX BASIN AND IS IN THE PROCESS OF MODIFYING THE TWR ENRTE ROUTING FROM OXR AND CMA TO WHP. THIS WILL ALLOW THE ACFT TO FLY FROM THOSE ARPTS VIA THE VNY 255 DEG RADIAL TO THE CANOG, THE IAF, TO WHIP. SPECIALIST STATED THAT THIS CHANGE SHOULD BE EFFECTIVE WITH THE NEXT CHARTING DATE. THE INITIAL CLRNC LIMIT WILL BE THE ARPT OF INTENDED LNDG. THE PLT HAS THE OPTION TO REQUEST THE IAF AS THE CLRNC LIMIT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.