37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 431474 |
Time | |
Date | 199903 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : sfo.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl single value : 4000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : o90.tracon |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Citation III, VI, VII |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 28r |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : instrument precision approach : visual departure : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 10100 flight time type : 800 |
ASRS Report | 431474 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : commercial pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | none taken : insufficient time |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Weather |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
En route from mhr to sfo, we were being vectored for the ILS runway 28R approach off of the risti 2 arrival. At 4000 ft we were given several vectors for the approach and were set up in the cockpit for same. Then we were told to turn to a heading to intercept the sfo 095 degree radial. Huh? With the attendant radio traffic confusion, we dutifully set up to intercept the radial for whatever reason. We were then admonished for not intercepting the radial (we still showed we were east of course) and were told we needed to intercept the radial for the 'quiet bridge visual.' we were in and out of the clouds. The controller anxiously asked us repeatedly if we had the field in sight. No, as we were in and out of the clouds. He then told us to turn to a heading, dropped us down in altitude, and vectored us a visual to runway 28R. Not the quiet bridge visual -- but a visual. I know the controller was rushed and busy, but we are too. We have to have time to change our radio setup. These guys can't just throw us last min radials and expect immediate response. It takes time to tune in vors, set up courses, let alone orient ourselves and mind read what they want us to do. They have no business using the quiet bridge visual, or any other visual, when approach airspace is broken (cloud wise). I don't know what happened to the ILS runway 28R that we thought we were being vectored for, and in fact, were set up and briefed in the cockpit. But, ATC working approach needs to adopt the instruction increasingly being used by ARTCC in the RNAV environment -- 'call sign, set up for intersection name and prepare to go direct.' this gives us time to find things and locate our position relative to a chart, not to mention tune in the proper frequencys.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: C650, CITATION ON APCH FOR AN ILS RWY 28R IS SUDDENLY GIVEN A RADIAL TO INTERCEPT. NO OTHER INFO. APCH SCOLDS THEM FOR GETTING TO THE RADIAL FOR THE QUIET BRIDGE VISUAL. SINCE THEY WERE IN AND OUT OF CLOUDS THIS WAS QUITE A SURPRISE. ASKED IF THEY HAD THE FIELD IN SIGHT THEY RESPONDED 'NO.' THEY WERE THEN VECTORED FOR A PLAIN VISUAL APCH.
Narrative: ENRTE FROM MHR TO SFO, WE WERE BEING VECTORED FOR THE ILS RWY 28R APCH OFF OF THE RISTI 2 ARR. AT 4000 FT WE WERE GIVEN SEVERAL VECTORS FOR THE APCH AND WERE SET UP IN THE COCKPIT FOR SAME. THEN WE WERE TOLD TO TURN TO A HDG TO INTERCEPT THE SFO 095 DEG RADIAL. HUH? WITH THE ATTENDANT RADIO TFC CONFUSION, WE DUTIFULLY SET UP TO INTERCEPT THE RADIAL FOR WHATEVER REASON. WE WERE THEN ADMONISHED FOR NOT INTERCEPTING THE RADIAL (WE STILL SHOWED WE WERE E OF COURSE) AND WERE TOLD WE NEEDED TO INTERCEPT THE RADIAL FOR THE 'QUIET BRIDGE VISUAL.' WE WERE IN AND OUT OF THE CLOUDS. THE CTLR ANXIOUSLY ASKED US REPEATEDLY IF WE HAD THE FIELD IN SIGHT. NO, AS WE WERE IN AND OUT OF THE CLOUDS. HE THEN TOLD US TO TURN TO A HDG, DROPPED US DOWN IN ALT, AND VECTORED US A VISUAL TO RWY 28R. NOT THE QUIET BRIDGE VISUAL -- BUT A VISUAL. I KNOW THE CTLR WAS RUSHED AND BUSY, BUT WE ARE TOO. WE HAVE TO HAVE TIME TO CHANGE OUR RADIO SETUP. THESE GUYS CAN'T JUST THROW US LAST MIN RADIALS AND EXPECT IMMEDIATE RESPONSE. IT TAKES TIME TO TUNE IN VORS, SET UP COURSES, LET ALONE ORIENT OURSELVES AND MIND READ WHAT THEY WANT US TO DO. THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS USING THE QUIET BRIDGE VISUAL, OR ANY OTHER VISUAL, WHEN APCH AIRSPACE IS BROKEN (CLOUD WISE). I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ILS RWY 28R THAT WE THOUGHT WE WERE BEING VECTORED FOR, AND IN FACT, WERE SET UP AND BRIEFED IN THE COCKPIT. BUT, ATC WORKING APCH NEEDS TO ADOPT THE INSTRUCTION INCREASINGLY BEING USED BY ARTCC IN THE RNAV ENVIRONMENT -- 'CALL SIGN, SET UP FOR INTXN NAME AND PREPARE TO GO DIRECT.' THIS GIVES US TIME TO FIND THINGS AND LOCATE OUR POS RELATIVE TO A CHART, NOT TO MENTION TUNE IN THE PROPER FREQS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.