Narrative:

B727-200. Route: cyhm-phl. Time incident occurred approximately XA40 local. Type of incident: tower reported that the crew stopped within 200 ft of the active runway therefore triggering an incursion report. We had been cleared to taxi from ramp position to runway 30R via taxiway C and runway 6. We taxied as cleared. We saw traffic on final and as we prepared to stop, ground control said to us hold short. He then said stop there. We had stopped and completed the briefings and checklists. Nothing else was said at that point. Then on tower frequency we heard the controller tell the B737 on final that a B727 was within 200 ft of the active -- we didn't think anything of it at that point. The B737 landed and then the tower cleared us to back taxi into position and hold. As we were holding in position for the B737 to clear the runway, the contract controller advised us that we had stopped within 200 ft of the active runway, therefore, a runway incursion must be reported. We were not aware of any 200 ft rule for holding short. We did not create an unsafe situation. We saw the landing traffic and did hold short of the active runway. Since we were on a runway there are no hold short lines, only the small runway signs. The tower is quite a distance from where we were and it was dark. Very minimal lighting at this airport. Emphasis to crews about airport signage might help crews from making this mistake again at this airport. Better understanding of canadian definitions of a 200 ft rule and does that include all taxi and runways. Better taxi hold short lines would be helpful too -- the paint at this airport is very dim. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter states that the crew called the tower operator immediately following the incident. The controller indicated that he was controling on a contract basis and that the visibility of the area in question is poor, especially at night, and that the 200 ft call is pretty much a subjective or judgement call. He also indicated to the reporter that this type of incident was fairly common on this particular taxi routing. The reporter further states that the landing B737 continued the approach and landing with no mention of concern for the disputed proximity of the holding short B727. The reporter was concerned about the obscurity of the incursion distance rule enough to request that the air carrier operations department post a copy of the rule in such a place and manner that all pilots operating into cyhm can become familiar. The reporter also suggests that the small red taxi sign be placed at a distance to indicate the 200 ft hold short point as an aid to pilots. Callback conversation with tower manager at cyhm revealed the following information: the 200 ft rule can be found in the canadian air regulations and the canada publication aip 4.2.6.

Related reports:

Google
 

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B727 CAUSES INITIATION OF RWY INCURSION RPT AS CYHM TWR CITES 200 FT RULE.

Narrative: B727-200. RTE: CYHM-PHL. TIME INCIDENT OCCURRED APPROX XA40 LCL. TYPE OF INCIDENT: TWR RPTED THAT THE CREW STOPPED WITHIN 200 FT OF THE ACTIVE RWY THEREFORE TRIGGERING AN INCURSION RPT. WE HAD BEEN CLRED TO TAXI FROM RAMP POS TO RWY 30R VIA TXWY C AND RWY 6. WE TAXIED AS CLRED. WE SAW TFC ON FINAL AND AS WE PREPARED TO STOP, GND CTL SAID TO US HOLD SHORT. HE THEN SAID STOP THERE. WE HAD STOPPED AND COMPLETED THE BRIEFINGS AND CHKLISTS. NOTHING ELSE WAS SAID AT THAT POINT. THEN ON TWR FREQ WE HEARD THE CTLR TELL THE B737 ON FINAL THAT A B727 WAS WITHIN 200 FT OF THE ACTIVE -- WE DIDN'T THINK ANYTHING OF IT AT THAT POINT. THE B737 LANDED AND THEN THE TWR CLRED US TO BACK TAXI INTO POS AND HOLD. AS WE WERE HOLDING IN POS FOR THE B737 TO CLR THE RWY, THE CONTRACT CTLR ADVISED US THAT WE HAD STOPPED WITHIN 200 FT OF THE ACTIVE RWY, THEREFORE, A RWY INCURSION MUST BE RPTED. WE WERE NOT AWARE OF ANY 200 FT RULE FOR HOLDING SHORT. WE DID NOT CREATE AN UNSAFE SIT. WE SAW THE LNDG TFC AND DID HOLD SHORT OF THE ACTIVE RWY. SINCE WE WERE ON A RWY THERE ARE NO HOLD SHORT LINES, ONLY THE SMALL RWY SIGNS. THE TWR IS QUITE A DISTANCE FROM WHERE WE WERE AND IT WAS DARK. VERY MINIMAL LIGHTING AT THIS ARPT. EMPHASIS TO CREWS ABOUT ARPT SIGNAGE MIGHT HELP CREWS FROM MAKING THIS MISTAKE AGAIN AT THIS ARPT. BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF CANADIAN DEFINITIONS OF A 200 FT RULE AND DOES THAT INCLUDE ALL TAXI AND RWYS. BETTER TAXI HOLD SHORT LINES WOULD BE HELPFUL TOO -- THE PAINT AT THIS ARPT IS VERY DIM. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE RPTR STATES THAT THE CREW CALLED THE TWR OPERATOR IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE INCIDENT. THE CTLR INDICATED THAT HE WAS CTLING ON A CONTRACT BASIS AND THAT THE VISIBILITY OF THE AREA IN QUESTION IS POOR, ESPECIALLY AT NIGHT, AND THAT THE 200 FT CALL IS PRETTY MUCH A SUBJECTIVE OR JUDGEMENT CALL. HE ALSO INDICATED TO THE RPTR THAT THIS TYPE OF INCIDENT WAS FAIRLY COMMON ON THIS PARTICULAR TAXI ROUTING. THE RPTR FURTHER STATES THAT THE LNDG B737 CONTINUED THE APCH AND LNDG WITH NO MENTION OF CONCERN FOR THE DISPUTED PROX OF THE HOLDING SHORT B727. THE RPTR WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE OBSCURITY OF THE INCURSION DISTANCE RULE ENOUGH TO REQUEST THAT THE ACR OPS DEPT POST A COPY OF THE RULE IN SUCH A PLACE AND MANNER THAT ALL PLTS OPERATING INTO CYHM CAN BECOME FAMILIAR. THE RPTR ALSO SUGGESTS THAT THE SMALL RED TAXI SIGN BE PLACED AT A DISTANCE TO INDICATE THE 200 FT HOLD SHORT POINT AS AN AID TO PLTS. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH TWR MGR AT CYHM REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE 200 FT RULE CAN BE FOUND IN THE CANADIAN AIR REGS AND THE CANADA PUB AIP 4.2.6.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.