37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 438947 |
Time | |
Date | 199905 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lga.airport |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B757-200 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | ground : taxi |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 5000 flight time type : 150 |
ASRS Report | 438947 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | incursion : runway non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Chart Or Publication Airport Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Airport |
Narrative:
Taxiing for departure on runway 4. WX was clear and visibility 10+ mi. Cleared to taxi to runway 4 via txwys east and B. Approaching the approach end of runway 4, there is an ILS hold line and then a 'B4' hold line. The 'B4' line is painted as a normal hold line. Since the WX was VFR, we taxied up to and held short of the 'B4' line. Tower then sent an aircraft around that was on an approximately 2 mi final. We were then told that we had crossed the 'wingtip clearance' line and to taxi on the runway and to turn off at taxiway Y. Tower then explained that the ILS hold line is also a wingtip clearance line for runway 4. There is no notation on the airport diagram about the ILS hold line being a wingtip clearance line. Our company information page for lga does not mention this either. There is absolutely no signage on the taxiway that indicates we should hold short of the ILS hold line on a good WX day. Information needs to be available on our charts and on the taxiway signs. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter confirmed his explanation of the ILS hold short line as the 'wingtip clearance' line. The company chief pilot has issued a company alert highlighting this new nomenclature associated with the runway 4 ILS hold short line for all company aircraft. The reporter states there is no associated airport signage alerting a pilot to this qualification. During conversation between the PIC and the tower, it was stated that certain airport signage was changed to reflect ICAO standards, and ever since, they (the tower) have had problems. The first officer (reporter) was not advised what the 'ICAO changes' were.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR B757 FLC TAXIES BEYOND ILS HOLD SHORT LINE, STOPPING AT THE B4 HOLD SHORT LINE FOR RWY 4. LGA TWR ISSUES GAR TO ACFT ON FINAL BECAUSE B757 FAILED TO STOP AT 'WINGTIP CLRNC LINE.'
Narrative: TAXIING FOR DEP ON RWY 4. WX WAS CLR AND VISIBILITY 10+ MI. CLRED TO TAXI TO RWY 4 VIA TXWYS E AND B. APCHING THE APCH END OF RWY 4, THERE IS AN ILS HOLD LINE AND THEN A 'B4' HOLD LINE. THE 'B4' LINE IS PAINTED AS A NORMAL HOLD LINE. SINCE THE WX WAS VFR, WE TAXIED UP TO AND HELD SHORT OF THE 'B4' LINE. TWR THEN SENT AN ACFT AROUND THAT WAS ON AN APPROX 2 MI FINAL. WE WERE THEN TOLD THAT WE HAD CROSSED THE 'WINGTIP CLRNC' LINE AND TO TAXI ON THE RWY AND TO TURN OFF AT TXWY Y. TWR THEN EXPLAINED THAT THE ILS HOLD LINE IS ALSO A WINGTIP CLRNC LINE FOR RWY 4. THERE IS NO NOTATION ON THE ARPT DIAGRAM ABOUT THE ILS HOLD LINE BEING A WINGTIP CLRNC LINE. OUR COMPANY INFO PAGE FOR LGA DOES NOT MENTION THIS EITHER. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO SIGNAGE ON THE TXWY THAT INDICATES WE SHOULD HOLD SHORT OF THE ILS HOLD LINE ON A GOOD WX DAY. INFO NEEDS TO BE AVAILABLE ON OUR CHARTS AND ON THE TXWY SIGNS. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR CONFIRMED HIS EXPLANATION OF THE ILS HOLD SHORT LINE AS THE 'WINGTIP CLRNC' LINE. THE COMPANY CHIEF PLT HAS ISSUED A COMPANY ALERT HIGHLIGHTING THIS NEW NOMENCLATURE ASSOCIATED WITH THE RWY 4 ILS HOLD SHORT LINE FOR ALL COMPANY ACFT. THE RPTR STATES THERE IS NO ASSOCIATED ARPT SIGNAGE ALERTING A PLT TO THIS QUALIFICATION. DURING CONVERSATION BTWN THE PIC AND THE TWR, IT WAS STATED THAT CERTAIN ARPT SIGNAGE WAS CHANGED TO REFLECT ICAO STANDARDS, AND EVER SINCE, THEY (THE TWR) HAVE HAD PROBS. THE FO (RPTR) WAS NOT ADVISED WHAT THE 'ICAO CHANGES' WERE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.