Narrative:

Forecast: clear with some buildups approximately 50 mi southwest of the route of flight, flight level winds, westerly 25-40 KTS. On departure for the return leg of the student solo out-and-back, X (the middle control ship) received an amended clearance altering the route of flight approximately 15 degrees to the east which the lead control ship estimated would avoid some building WX. However, no notice of reported buildups were passed along by ATC, even though they were specifically queried by the mishap aircraft. The middle control ship had 3 lump zulu's (solo students) in front and 3 behind, although there were only 2 lumps on the same frequency. The one immediately in front of and behind the middle control ship. This was due to typical servicing and student preflight delays. X observed high level cirrus type clouds ahead and asked center if they were getting any returns on their radar. Center reported none. X attempted to contact the lump in front although this was quickly abandoned due to frequency congestion and the realization that the solos were approaching WX that they could not cruise through (IMC). Although there were 25-50 mi between the 3 aircraft, center would not allow all 3 to climb to the requested altitude (FL370) as filed on the dd-175. X began requesting higher and deviation east of course was approved. Center began incrementally climbing the jets with the lump in front and behind receiving the higher altitudes (Y at FL370 in front and Z at FL410 for the lump in back). X entered the cirrus layer at FL330. This did not present a problem as there were no buildups or dark clouds observed, although the dual crew that launched at the end of the train reported an easily recognizable thunderstorm when they arrived at the location only 30 mins later. X continued to ask for higher altitudes and were cleared to FL390. X heard the lump ahead of him request higher immediately for WX and was about to declare an emergency for the lump when he encountered hail. X had begun a military power climb and was passing FL340 at mach .95. Thunderstorm penetration airspeed for the T38 is 280 KTS and was showing about 300 KTS at that altitude. X immediately declared an emergency. The nose started to pitch up through approximately 5 degrees nose high which caused the airspeed to bleed off despite the pilot applying full forward stick resulting in a negative 1.5 G pushover. The updraft of the embedded thunderstorm was so intense that the vvi was pegged at a 6000 FPM rate of climb even with the aggressive pushover. Maximum negative G limit for the fuel weight was about negative 2.5, however at that altitude there was limited negative pitch authority/authorized even with maximum 'slab' deflection. The pilot monitored the engines and they were worth every penny spent on maintenance as they never missed a beat. The jet was thrown into the clear passing about FL400 and apexed a little over FL430. Airspeed was mach .65 indicating 220 KTS. Needless to say, an immediate descent followed as the pilot maximum performed the jet to minimize altitude lost. There was no WX below and when the pilot looked back he could see a dark boiling cloud which would soon water a good portion of the american western plains. X was in the WX for less than 4 mins. During the uncommanded climb, X heard the lump in front of him declare an emergency and center said he was now 50 mi behind us as he had attempted to avoid some growing convective clouds and ended up approximately 270 degrees off of course and he was asking to talk to him. He met him on the squadron common frequency, assessed his condition, gave him a game plan, and got back to center. Noted dents and missing paint on the leading edges of the wings and vertical stabilizer. Told center that he and the lump were going direct to vance AFB and he instructed center that all following lump and duke aircraft should stay well east of the planned route of flight, although this was apparently never passed on to them. X contacted the supervisor of flying and informed him of the situation and status of the aircraft that he was aware of. The lump that was originally behind had been cleared to the altitude that was originally requested for all 3 jets. He climbed to FL410 where he could see the convective activity and had avoided it altogether. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter indicated that he was part of an 8 aircraft cross country operation that has a working agreement with ARTCC that allows student non IFR rated pilots into the class a airspace. They are led by an instructor, have an instructor between aircraft and one to follow the group. Spacing between aircraft on the routing is supposed to be 25-50 mi. The students are essentially alone and solo but have the backup in the area. Reporter indicated that it is a recurring problem that the ARTCC controller that works the flts is usually not aware of how the operation works even though the LOA with the military is filed for each operation. He suspects that it only gets filed and the person controling that day is not informed. Reporter indicates that communication is a problem because of the use of UHF radio. This causes controllers to have blocked VHF xmissions from other aircraft. There is only 1 radio on the T38. Reporter is also concerned that ARTCC is not helpful with WX avoidance advisories since his aircraft has no on-board radar. Military reviewed incident with ARTCC.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: MIL XCOUNTRY TRAINING FLT INVOLVING SEVERAL AIRPLANES ENCOUNTERED TSTMS AND WX. SOME INVOLVED PLTS WERE NOT QUALIFIED FOR IMC FLT. SUPERVISORY ACFT SUSTAINED DAMAGE.

Narrative: FORECAST: CLR WITH SOME BUILDUPS APPROX 50 MI SW OF THE RTE OF FLT, FLT LEVEL WINDS, WESTERLY 25-40 KTS. ON DEP FOR THE RETURN LEG OF THE STUDENT SOLO OUT-AND-BACK, X (THE MIDDLE CTL SHIP) RECEIVED AN AMENDED CLRNC ALTERING THE RTE OF FLT APPROX 15 DEGS TO THE E WHICH THE LEAD CTL SHIP ESTIMATED WOULD AVOID SOME BUILDING WX. HOWEVER, NO NOTICE OF RPTED BUILDUPS WERE PASSED ALONG BY ATC, EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE SPECIFICALLY QUERIED BY THE MISHAP ACFT. THE MIDDLE CTL SHIP HAD 3 LUMP ZULU'S (SOLO STUDENTS) IN FRONT AND 3 BEHIND, ALTHOUGH THERE WERE ONLY 2 LUMPS ON THE SAME FREQ. THE ONE IMMEDIATELY IN FRONT OF AND BEHIND THE MIDDLE CTL SHIP. THIS WAS DUE TO TYPICAL SVCING AND STUDENT PREFLT DELAYS. X OBSERVED HIGH LEVEL CIRRUS TYPE CLOUDS AHEAD AND ASKED CTR IF THEY WERE GETTING ANY RETURNS ON THEIR RADAR. CTR RPTED NONE. X ATTEMPTED TO CONTACT THE LUMP IN FRONT ALTHOUGH THIS WAS QUICKLY ABANDONED DUE TO FREQ CONGESTION AND THE REALIZATION THAT THE SOLOS WERE APCHING WX THAT THEY COULD NOT CRUISE THROUGH (IMC). ALTHOUGH THERE WERE 25-50 MI BTWN THE 3 ACFT, CTR WOULD NOT ALLOW ALL 3 TO CLB TO THE REQUESTED ALT (FL370) AS FILED ON THE DD-175. X BEGAN REQUESTING HIGHER AND DEV E OF COURSE WAS APPROVED. CTR BEGAN INCREMENTALLY CLBING THE JETS WITH THE LUMP IN FRONT AND BEHIND RECEIVING THE HIGHER ALTS (Y AT FL370 IN FRONT AND Z AT FL410 FOR THE LUMP IN BACK). X ENTERED THE CIRRUS LAYER AT FL330. THIS DID NOT PRESENT A PROB AS THERE WERE NO BUILDUPS OR DARK CLOUDS OBSERVED, ALTHOUGH THE DUAL CREW THAT LAUNCHED AT THE END OF THE TRAIN RPTED AN EASILY RECOGNIZABLE TSTM WHEN THEY ARRIVED AT THE LOCATION ONLY 30 MINS LATER. X CONTINUED TO ASK FOR HIGHER ALTS AND WERE CLRED TO FL390. X HEARD THE LUMP AHEAD OF HIM REQUEST HIGHER IMMEDIATELY FOR WX AND WAS ABOUT TO DECLARE AN EMER FOR THE LUMP WHEN HE ENCOUNTERED HAIL. X HAD BEGUN A MIL PWR CLB AND WAS PASSING FL340 AT MACH .95. TSTM PENETRATION AIRSPD FOR THE T38 IS 280 KTS AND WAS SHOWING ABOUT 300 KTS AT THAT ALT. X IMMEDIATELY DECLARED AN EMER. THE NOSE STARTED TO PITCH UP THROUGH APPROX 5 DEGS NOSE HIGH WHICH CAUSED THE AIRSPD TO BLEED OFF DESPITE THE PLT APPLYING FULL FORWARD STICK RESULTING IN A NEGATIVE 1.5 G PUSHOVER. THE UPDRAFT OF THE EMBEDDED TSTM WAS SO INTENSE THAT THE VVI WAS PEGGED AT A 6000 FPM RATE OF CLB EVEN WITH THE AGGRESSIVE PUSHOVER. MAX NEGATIVE G LIMIT FOR THE FUEL WT WAS ABOUT NEGATIVE 2.5, HOWEVER AT THAT ALT THERE WAS LIMITED NEGATIVE PITCH AUTH EVEN WITH MAX 'SLAB' DEFLECTION. THE PLT MONITORED THE ENGS AND THEY WERE WORTH EVERY PENNY SPENT ON MAINT AS THEY NEVER MISSED A BEAT. THE JET WAS THROWN INTO THE CLR PASSING ABOUT FL400 AND APEXED A LITTLE OVER FL430. AIRSPD WAS MACH .65 INDICATING 220 KTS. NEEDLESS TO SAY, AN IMMEDIATE DSCNT FOLLOWED AS THE PLT MAX PERFORMED THE JET TO MINIMIZE ALT LOST. THERE WAS NO WX BELOW AND WHEN THE PLT LOOKED BACK HE COULD SEE A DARK BOILING CLOUD WHICH WOULD SOON WATER A GOOD PORTION OF THE AMERICAN WESTERN PLAINS. X WAS IN THE WX FOR LESS THAN 4 MINS. DURING THE UNCOMMANDED CLB, X HEARD THE LUMP IN FRONT OF HIM DECLARE AN EMER AND CTR SAID HE WAS NOW 50 MI BEHIND US AS HE HAD ATTEMPTED TO AVOID SOME GROWING CONVECTIVE CLOUDS AND ENDED UP APPROX 270 DEGS OFF OF COURSE AND HE WAS ASKING TO TALK TO HIM. HE MET HIM ON THE SQUADRON COMMON FREQ, ASSESSED HIS CONDITION, GAVE HIM A GAME PLAN, AND GOT BACK TO CTR. NOTED DENTS AND MISSING PAINT ON THE LEADING EDGES OF THE WINGS AND VERT STABILIZER. TOLD CTR THAT HE AND THE LUMP WERE GOING DIRECT TO VANCE AFB AND HE INSTRUCTED CTR THAT ALL FOLLOWING LUMP AND DUKE ACFT SHOULD STAY WELL E OF THE PLANNED RTE OF FLT, ALTHOUGH THIS WAS APPARENTLY NEVER PASSED ON TO THEM. X CONTACTED THE SUPVR OF FLYING AND INFORMED HIM OF THE SIT AND STATUS OF THE ACFT THAT HE WAS AWARE OF. THE LUMP THAT WAS ORIGINALLY BEHIND HAD BEEN CLRED TO THE ALT THAT WAS ORIGINALLY REQUESTED FOR ALL 3 JETS. HE CLBED TO FL410 WHERE HE COULD SEE THE CONVECTIVE ACTIVITY AND HAD AVOIDED IT ALTOGETHER. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR INDICATED THAT HE WAS PART OF AN 8 ACFT XCOUNTRY OP THAT HAS A WORKING AGREEMENT WITH ARTCC THAT ALLOWS STUDENT NON IFR RATED PLTS INTO THE CLASS A AIRSPACE. THEY ARE LED BY AN INSTRUCTOR, HAVE AN INSTRUCTOR BTWN ACFT AND ONE TO FOLLOW THE GROUP. SPACING BTWN ACFT ON THE ROUTING IS SUPPOSED TO BE 25-50 MI. THE STUDENTS ARE ESSENTIALLY ALONE AND SOLO BUT HAVE THE BACKUP IN THE AREA. RPTR INDICATED THAT IT IS A RECURRING PROB THAT THE ARTCC CTLR THAT WORKS THE FLTS IS USUALLY NOT AWARE OF HOW THE OP WORKS EVEN THOUGH THE LOA WITH THE MIL IS FILED FOR EACH OP. HE SUSPECTS THAT IT ONLY GETS FILED AND THE PERSON CTLING THAT DAY IS NOT INFORMED. RPTR INDICATES THAT COM IS A PROB BECAUSE OF THE USE OF UHF RADIO. THIS CAUSES CTLRS TO HAVE BLOCKED VHF XMISSIONS FROM OTHER ACFT. THERE IS ONLY 1 RADIO ON THE T38. RPTR IS ALSO CONCERNED THAT ARTCC IS NOT HELPFUL WITH WX AVOIDANCE ADVISORIES SINCE HIS ACFT HAS NO ON-BOARD RADAR. MIL REVIEWED INCIDENT WITH ARTCC.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.