37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 450118 |
Time | |
Date | 199909 |
Day | Fri |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : ord.airport |
State Reference | IL |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : ord.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 9r |
Flight Phase | landing : roll |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : ord.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 9r |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 450118 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument |
Events | |
Anomaly | ground encounters other inflight encounter : wake turbulence inflight encounter : weather |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Airport Flight Crew Human Performance FAA |
Primary Problem | FAA |
Situations | |
Airport | procedure or policy : ord.airport |
Narrative:
Upon initial contact with ord tower, we were given landing clearance and told to hold short of taxiway south. We acknowledged the hold short. After touchdown the aircraft was slow to decelerate and as we were going by high speed turnoff taxiway M6, at around 80 KTS, the tower controller asked us if we could make the taxiway M6 turnoff. I believe my first officer said 'unable.' the tower controller then was occupied with clrncs to other aircraft and as we approached the lahso line by the end of the runway 9R we stopped the aircraft on the runway holding short of the white flashing lahso light going across the runway. As we were literally parked there on the runway, the tower asked us something to the effect of why we were not clearing the runway. We replied that we were complying with last received clearance 'to hold short of taxiway south.' aircraft behind us on final was told to go around, and the tower again now appearing quite annoyed told us to turn left off the runway. Among the many thoughts and questions that come to my mind is first of all, were we correct in stopping on the runway holding short of the lahso white flashing lights, or should we have crossed the lahso line and cleared the runway? I believe we complied with last received clearance and did not violate any rules. My second question is, on any lahso clearance given to any aircraft on any runway, if given a lahso clearance for landing, if we are unable to exit the runway prior to reaching the lahso point, we are then required by virtue of the clearance to hold on the runway, short of the lahso point. My last question is for a lahso clearance given on any runway for any aircraft. Am I correct in saying that if the aircraft given the lahso clearance to is not able to exit the runway prior to the lahso point, then absent any amended clearance from the controller, the aircraft is required by virtue of that lahso clearance to stop on the runway holding short of the lahso hold line. In our case the white flashing lights. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the crew received the lahso clearance on the first contact with the tower. It was not mentioned further. The crew verified that the aircraft was legal to accept the reduced runway length. WX conditions were calm wind with a stable atmosphere. They were 3-4 mi in trail of an airbus A320. When on the GS they were getting moderate or heavier wake turbulence. Only by flying 1/2 DOT high were they able to avoid the turbulence. The captain added a reference speed adjustment also. As the aircraft was in the landing flare they re-entered the wake turbulence. This required a thrust addition. The aircraft touched down before the intersection of runway 32L. Because of the longer than normal landing and speed additions, the aircraft was too fast for high speed intxns M5, or M6. At this point the aircraft came to a stop just before the lahso hold short light bar. The captain stated that he thought the tower controller lost track of them, and did not know they were still holding short as previously cleared. Only after they said something to the tower, was the aircraft behind them told to go around. The captain further stated that he has never held at a hold point, and from the way the tower reacted they had never seen this before either. It was nighttime, so an aircraft holding would not be immediately visible.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MD80 CREW FOLLOWED THEIR LAHSO CLRNC TO THE LETTER AND HELD AT THE HOLD SHORT POINT AT RWY 9R AT ORD.
Narrative: UPON INITIAL CONTACT WITH ORD TWR, WE WERE GIVEN LNDG CLRNC AND TOLD TO HOLD SHORT OF TXWY S. WE ACKNOWLEDGED THE HOLD SHORT. AFTER TOUCHDOWN THE ACFT WAS SLOW TO DECELERATE AND AS WE WERE GOING BY HIGH SPD TURNOFF TXWY M6, AT AROUND 80 KTS, THE TWR CTLR ASKED US IF WE COULD MAKE THE TXWY M6 TURNOFF. I BELIEVE MY FO SAID 'UNABLE.' THE TWR CTLR THEN WAS OCCUPIED WITH CLRNCS TO OTHER ACFT AND AS WE APCHED THE LAHSO LINE BY THE END OF THE RWY 9R WE STOPPED THE ACFT ON THE RWY HOLDING SHORT OF THE WHITE FLASHING LAHSO LIGHT GOING ACROSS THE RWY. AS WE WERE LITERALLY PARKED THERE ON THE RWY, THE TWR ASKED US SOMETHING TO THE EFFECT OF WHY WE WERE NOT CLRING THE RWY. WE REPLIED THAT WE WERE COMPLYING WITH LAST RECEIVED CLRNC 'TO HOLD SHORT OF TXWY S.' ACFT BEHIND US ON FINAL WAS TOLD TO GO AROUND, AND THE TWR AGAIN NOW APPEARING QUITE ANNOYED TOLD US TO TURN L OFF THE RWY. AMONG THE MANY THOUGHTS AND QUESTIONS THAT COME TO MY MIND IS FIRST OF ALL, WERE WE CORRECT IN STOPPING ON THE RWY HOLDING SHORT OF THE LAHSO WHITE FLASHING LIGHTS, OR SHOULD WE HAVE CROSSED THE LAHSO LINE AND CLRED THE RWY? I BELIEVE WE COMPLIED WITH LAST RECEIVED CLRNC AND DID NOT VIOLATE ANY RULES. MY SECOND QUESTION IS, ON ANY LAHSO CLRNC GIVEN TO ANY ACFT ON ANY RWY, IF GIVEN A LAHSO CLRNC FOR LNDG, IF WE ARE UNABLE TO EXIT THE RWY PRIOR TO REACHING THE LAHSO POINT, WE ARE THEN REQUIRED BY VIRTUE OF THE CLRNC TO HOLD ON THE RWY, SHORT OF THE LAHSO POINT. MY LAST QUESTION IS FOR A LAHSO CLRNC GIVEN ON ANY RWY FOR ANY ACFT. AM I CORRECT IN SAYING THAT IF THE ACFT GIVEN THE LAHSO CLRNC TO IS NOT ABLE TO EXIT THE RWY PRIOR TO THE LAHSO POINT, THEN ABSENT ANY AMENDED CLRNC FROM THE CTLR, THE ACFT IS REQUIRED BY VIRTUE OF THAT LAHSO CLRNC TO STOP ON THE RWY HOLDING SHORT OF THE LAHSO HOLD LINE. IN OUR CASE THE WHITE FLASHING LIGHTS. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE CREW RECEIVED THE LAHSO CLRNC ON THE FIRST CONTACT WITH THE TWR. IT WAS NOT MENTIONED FURTHER. THE CREW VERIFIED THAT THE ACFT WAS LEGAL TO ACCEPT THE REDUCED RWY LENGTH. WX CONDITIONS WERE CALM WIND WITH A STABLE ATMOSPHERE. THEY WERE 3-4 MI IN TRAIL OF AN AIRBUS A320. WHEN ON THE GS THEY WERE GETTING MODERATE OR HEAVIER WAKE TURB. ONLY BY FLYING 1/2 DOT HIGH WERE THEY ABLE TO AVOID THE TURB. THE CAPT ADDED A REF SPD ADJUSTMENT ALSO. AS THE ACFT WAS IN THE LNDG FLARE THEY RE-ENTERED THE WAKE TURB. THIS REQUIRED A THRUST ADDITION. THE ACFT TOUCHED DOWN BEFORE THE INTXN OF RWY 32L. BECAUSE OF THE LONGER THAN NORMAL LNDG AND SPD ADDITIONS, THE ACFT WAS TOO FAST FOR HIGH SPD INTXNS M5, OR M6. AT THIS POINT THE ACFT CAME TO A STOP JUST BEFORE THE LAHSO HOLD SHORT LIGHT BAR. THE CAPT STATED THAT HE THOUGHT THE TWR CTLR LOST TRACK OF THEM, AND DID NOT KNOW THEY WERE STILL HOLDING SHORT AS PREVIOUSLY CLRED. ONLY AFTER THEY SAID SOMETHING TO THE TWR, WAS THE ACFT BEHIND THEM TOLD TO GO AROUND. THE CAPT FURTHER STATED THAT HE HAS NEVER HELD AT A HOLD POINT, AND FROM THE WAY THE TWR REACTED THEY HAD NEVER SEEN THIS BEFORE EITHER. IT WAS NIGHTTIME, SO AN ACFT HOLDING WOULD NOT BE IMMEDIATELY VISIBLE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.