37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 450500 |
Time | |
Date | 199909 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | navaid : clt.vortac |
State Reference | NC |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 11000 msl bound upper : 11700 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : clt.tracon tower : tol.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-300 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other other vortac |
Route In Use | arrival star : shine 5 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 10600 flight time type : 3160 |
ASRS Report | 450500 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : undershoot non adherence : clearance non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure other anomaly |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to original clearance none taken : anomaly accepted |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
ZTL was the controling ATC at the beginning of the arrival. I noted we would be unable to make the crossing restr of shine, 40 mi from clt at 11000 ft, 250 KTS, and expressed this to the captain who was the PF. He told me to advise ATC we could give speed or altitude, but not both. They (the controller) said they needed altitude first then to slow to 250 KTS. At about 7 mi from the fix (shine), I once again noted that we would not make the altitude of 11000 ft at shine. However, the captain did not bother to correct the problem or seem concerned. With a descent rate of over 4000 FPM, I checked on to approach with flight number and altitude of leveling at 11000 ft. He said he showed us at 12400 ft. We were passing between 11500-11700 ft at the time with the high descent rate. I don't think there was a conflict at the time. This whole thing could have been avoided by just advising the controller of the altitude crossing problem before it occurred. Why some pilots have a problem letting the ATC controller know about problems like this is beyond me. They are there to help. That's their job. However, some pilots do not recognize this. I can assure everyone that when I move to the left seat I will use the microphone for what it is intended to be used for -- to talk to the controllers!
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737 CREW DID NOT COMPLY WITH THE PUBLISHED ALT XING RESTR OR SPD.
Narrative: ZTL WAS THE CTLING ATC AT THE BEGINNING OF THE ARR. I NOTED WE WOULD BE UNABLE TO MAKE THE XING RESTR OF SHINE, 40 MI FROM CLT AT 11000 FT, 250 KTS, AND EXPRESSED THIS TO THE CAPT WHO WAS THE PF. HE TOLD ME TO ADVISE ATC WE COULD GIVE SPD OR ALT, BUT NOT BOTH. THEY (THE CTLR) SAID THEY NEEDED ALT FIRST THEN TO SLOW TO 250 KTS. AT ABOUT 7 MI FROM THE FIX (SHINE), I ONCE AGAIN NOTED THAT WE WOULD NOT MAKE THE ALT OF 11000 FT AT SHINE. HOWEVER, THE CAPT DID NOT BOTHER TO CORRECT THE PROB OR SEEM CONCERNED. WITH A DSCNT RATE OF OVER 4000 FPM, I CHKED ON TO APCH WITH FLT NUMBER AND ALT OF LEVELING AT 11000 FT. HE SAID HE SHOWED US AT 12400 FT. WE WERE PASSING BTWN 11500-11700 FT AT THE TIME WITH THE HIGH DSCNT RATE. I DON'T THINK THERE WAS A CONFLICT AT THE TIME. THIS WHOLE THING COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED BY JUST ADVISING THE CTLR OF THE ALT XING PROB BEFORE IT OCCURRED. WHY SOME PLTS HAVE A PROB LETTING THE ATC CTLR KNOW ABOUT PROBS LIKE THIS IS BEYOND ME. THEY ARE THERE TO HELP. THAT'S THEIR JOB. HOWEVER, SOME PLTS DO NOT RECOGNIZE THIS. I CAN ASSURE EVERYONE THAT WHEN I MOVE TO THE L SEAT I WILL USE THE MIKE FOR WHAT IT IS INTENDED TO BE USED FOR -- TO TALK TO THE CTLRS!
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.