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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 457928 |
Time | |
Date | 199912 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : ads.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | landing : roll |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : lax.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B757-200 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | ground : holding |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : flight engineer pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 4900 flight time type : 560 |
ASRS Report | 457928 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 250 flight time total : 2000 flight time type : 5000 |
ASRS Report | 458111 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : ground less severe incursion : taxiway other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance controller : issued alert flight crew : executed go around |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Airport Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : lax.tower |
Narrative:
Wind 080 degrees at 8 KTS. B757 (aircraft Y) on taxiway M between runway 25L&right. We (aircraft X) were landing, 5 mi behind a heavy DC10 (aircraft west). A foreign air carrier (aircraft Z), 3 mi behind us. The DC10 was on taxiway north between runway 25L&right. After landing on runway 25L and slowing through 100 KTS, ATC told us to 'exit to the right behind company or if unable make a left at taxiway A7.' we started the right turn at taxiway M behind the B757. Then, ATC said 'left turn, left turn air carrier X.' so we stopped the right turn and proceeded straight down the runway, because it was too late to make the left turn at taxiway A7. The aircraft had to be turned in a rapid way which was uncomfortable. The foreign air carrier had to go around. The captain spoke with the tower on the phone and they said they issued an instruction to make a hard right turn behind company. We never heard this transmission. Solution: let the pilots exit the runway where they feel it is safe. Our initial plan was to turn right behind the B757 on taxiway M. If ATC never issued the ambiguous instruction, it all would have worked out. At 100 KTS after landing, it is no time to talk to ATC. There is a lot going on in the cockpit during the rollout. Supplemental information from acn 458111: I called the tower upon landing/parking and spoke with the supervisor. The supervisor stated the controller issued yet another instruction to make a 'hard right' turn behind company (to try and salvage the go around). I explained we never heard that transmission. It would be better and safer to let pilot complete rollout and not be issued turnoffs! Had no instruction been given, we would have exited at the point controller wanted. The instructions the controller was issuing would have caused rapid and unsafe control movements had we complied as they were issued.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: DUE TO PLT CTLR CONFUSION WHILE ON LNDG ROLL AT LAX, ACR FLC DOES NOT MAKE TXWY EXIT, PROCEEDING TO NEXT TXWY EXIT, CAUSING GAR FOR FOREIGN ACR ON SHORT FINAL.
Narrative: WIND 080 DEGS AT 8 KTS. B757 (ACFT Y) ON TXWY M BTWN RWY 25L&R. WE (ACFT X) WERE LNDG, 5 MI BEHIND A HVY DC10 (ACFT W). A FOREIGN ACR (ACFT Z), 3 MI BEHIND US. THE DC10 WAS ON TXWY N BTWN RWY 25L&R. AFTER LNDG ON RWY 25L AND SLOWING THROUGH 100 KTS, ATC TOLD US TO 'EXIT TO THE R BEHIND COMPANY OR IF UNABLE MAKE A L AT TXWY A7.' WE STARTED THE R TURN AT TXWY M BEHIND THE B757. THEN, ATC SAID 'L TURN, L TURN ACR X.' SO WE STOPPED THE R TURN AND PROCEEDED STRAIGHT DOWN THE RWY, BECAUSE IT WAS TOO LATE TO MAKE THE L TURN AT TXWY A7. THE ACFT HAD TO BE TURNED IN A RAPID WAY WHICH WAS UNCOMFORTABLE. THE FOREIGN ACR HAD TO GO AROUND. THE CAPT SPOKE WITH THE TWR ON THE PHONE AND THEY SAID THEY ISSUED AN INSTRUCTION TO MAKE A HARD R TURN BEHIND COMPANY. WE NEVER HEARD THIS XMISSION. SOLUTION: LET THE PLTS EXIT THE RWY WHERE THEY FEEL IT IS SAFE. OUR INITIAL PLAN WAS TO TURN R BEHIND THE B757 ON TXWY M. IF ATC NEVER ISSUED THE AMBIGUOUS INSTRUCTION, IT ALL WOULD HAVE WORKED OUT. AT 100 KTS AFTER LNDG, IT IS NO TIME TO TALK TO ATC. THERE IS A LOT GOING ON IN THE COCKPIT DURING THE ROLLOUT. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 458111: I CALLED THE TWR UPON LNDG/PARKING AND SPOKE WITH THE SUPVR. THE SUPVR STATED THE CTLR ISSUED YET ANOTHER INSTRUCTION TO MAKE A 'HARD R' TURN BEHIND COMPANY (TO TRY AND SALVAGE THE GAR). I EXPLAINED WE NEVER HEARD THAT XMISSION. IT WOULD BE BETTER AND SAFER TO LET PLT COMPLETE ROLLOUT AND NOT BE ISSUED TURNOFFS! HAD NO INSTRUCTION BEEN GIVEN, WE WOULD HAVE EXITED AT THE POINT CTLR WANTED. THE INSTRUCTIONS THE CTLR WAS ISSUING WOULD HAVE CAUSED RAPID AND UNSAFE CTL MOVEMENTS HAD WE COMPLIED AS THEY WERE ISSUED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.