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B727 PIC initiates speed reduction to follow another B727 turned in front of him while D01 controller attempts to resolve the situation.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 458332 |
| Time | |
| Date | 199912 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : den.airport |
| State Reference | CO |
| Altitude | msl single value : 10000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 35l |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | approach : visual arrival : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : d01.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | approach : visual arrival : on vectors |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 11500 flight time type : 4000 |
| ASRS Report | 458332 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : published procedure |
| Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance Airspace Structure |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
We were being vectored for the runway 35L localizer for a visual approach to runway 35L at den. ATC gave us a speed of 180 KTS and said that we had traffic at our 10 O'clock position turning in for runway 35L. I said I was looking for the traffic but had the runway. The controller turned the other B727 in front of us. I started slowing to 160 KTS because he was only 3 mi (on TCASII) in front of us. I didn't call the traffic (even though I saw him) because ATC was trying to 'stuff' us together with less than the required separation, and then put the onus on me to 'maintain visual separation' with nowhere to go. When the other B727 was in front of us on the approach, ATC asked us what our speed was. We said '160 KTS.' ATC said 'you are supposed to be at 180 KTS. Cancel approach clearance and descend to 8000 ft on your present heading.' then ATC changed his mind and reclred us for the visual approach to maintain 180 KTS to the marker. It appeared that the controller was trying to stick me up the other B727's tailpipe and probably run the aircraft behind me up my butt. I actually saved his ass by slowing down. It seemed like he was intending to 'punish' me for screwing up his spacing, but I didn't intend to call the traffic, because the controller had already busted the separation.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B727 PIC INITIATES SPD REDUCTION TO FOLLOW ANOTHER B727 TURNED IN FRONT OF HIM WHILE D01 CTLR ATTEMPTS TO RESOLVE THE SIT.
Narrative: WE WERE BEING VECTORED FOR THE RWY 35L LOC FOR A VISUAL APCH TO RWY 35L AT DEN. ATC GAVE US A SPD OF 180 KTS AND SAID THAT WE HAD TFC AT OUR 10 O'CLOCK POS TURNING IN FOR RWY 35L. I SAID I WAS LOOKING FOR THE TFC BUT HAD THE RWY. THE CTLR TURNED THE OTHER B727 IN FRONT OF US. I STARTED SLOWING TO 160 KTS BECAUSE HE WAS ONLY 3 MI (ON TCASII) IN FRONT OF US. I DIDN'T CALL THE TFC (EVEN THOUGH I SAW HIM) BECAUSE ATC WAS TRYING TO 'STUFF' US TOGETHER WITH LESS THAN THE REQUIRED SEPARATION, AND THEN PUT THE ONUS ON ME TO 'MAINTAIN VISUAL SEPARATION' WITH NOWHERE TO GO. WHEN THE OTHER B727 WAS IN FRONT OF US ON THE APCH, ATC ASKED US WHAT OUR SPD WAS. WE SAID '160 KTS.' ATC SAID 'YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE AT 180 KTS. CANCEL APCH CLRNC AND DSND TO 8000 FT ON YOUR PRESENT HDG.' THEN ATC CHANGED HIS MIND AND RECLRED US FOR THE VISUAL APCH TO MAINTAIN 180 KTS TO THE MARKER. IT APPEARED THAT THE CTLR WAS TRYING TO STICK ME UP THE OTHER B727'S TAILPIPE AND PROBABLY RUN THE ACFT BEHIND ME UP MY BUTT. I ACTUALLY SAVED HIS ASS BY SLOWING DOWN. IT SEEMED LIKE HE WAS INTENDING TO 'PUNISH' ME FOR SCREWING UP HIS SPACING, BUT I DIDN'T INTEND TO CALL THE TFC, BECAUSE THE CTLR HAD ALREADY BUSTED THE SEPARATION.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.