37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 460600 |
Time | |
Date | 200001 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : cyyz.airport |
State Reference | ON |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 11500 msl bound upper : 12000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Regional Jet CL65, Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | arrival : profile descent |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 460600 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Airspace Structure Chart Or Publication Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
During the descent into yyz, we were cleared to 7000 ft via the profile descent for runway 05/06R. This descent requires a step-down fix at 15 NM from ywt (12000 ft). The altitude for this fix is at or between 14000-12000 ft. When cleared to 7000 ft, the PNF set that altitude in the altitude alerter and the descent was started. We failed to notice the leveloff altitude required by the procedure. At 11500 ft we were questioned by the controller about the altitude deviation. We were then cleared to 11000 ft and the profile descent. We had discussed the arrival with the first officer, even entered the fix 15 NM from ywt VOR and the crossing restr of 12000 ft. But, we were vectored away from our route and then cleared direct ywt, this erased the ywt -- 15 NM fix from the FMS. It was later re-entered but without its restr. In addition, the clearance to descend to 7000 ft triggered an automatic response to cross such altitude instead of the appropriate step-down fix. I think it would be less confusing if crews were cleared to the profile descent period. This way, no 'conditioned' response would come from the crew other than searching in the chart for the appropriate altitudes. I don't see the need for the use of an altitude when clearing a flight for the profile since any altitudes, other than the ones depicted on the chart, would mean you are not on the profile descent. I've done this arrival several times with no problems, the day in question had been a long day, plagued with demanding approachs with low level windshear at every airport we had been. Tiredness may have also played a role in this event.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR OVERSHOOTS ALT ON PROFILE DSCNT TO YYZ, ON.
Narrative: DURING THE DSCNT INTO YYZ, WE WERE CLRED TO 7000 FT VIA THE PROFILE DSCNT FOR RWY 05/06R. THIS DSCNT REQUIRES A STEP-DOWN FIX AT 15 NM FROM YWT (12000 FT). THE ALT FOR THIS FIX IS AT OR BTWN 14000-12000 FT. WHEN CLRED TO 7000 FT, THE PNF SET THAT ALT IN THE ALT ALERTER AND THE DSCNT WAS STARTED. WE FAILED TO NOTICE THE LEVELOFF ALT REQUIRED BY THE PROC. AT 11500 FT WE WERE QUESTIONED BY THE CTLR ABOUT THE ALTDEV. WE WERE THEN CLRED TO 11000 FT AND THE PROFILE DSCNT. WE HAD DISCUSSED THE ARR WITH THE FO, EVEN ENTERED THE FIX 15 NM FROM YWT VOR AND THE XING RESTR OF 12000 FT. BUT, WE WERE VECTORED AWAY FROM OUR RTE AND THEN CLRED DIRECT YWT, THIS ERASED THE YWT -- 15 NM FIX FROM THE FMS. IT WAS LATER RE-ENTERED BUT WITHOUT ITS RESTR. IN ADDITION, THE CLRNC TO DSND TO 7000 FT TRIGGERED AN AUTOMATIC RESPONSE TO CROSS SUCH ALT INSTEAD OF THE APPROPRIATE STEP-DOWN FIX. I THINK IT WOULD BE LESS CONFUSING IF CREWS WERE CLRED TO THE PROFILE DSCNT PERIOD. THIS WAY, NO 'CONDITIONED' RESPONSE WOULD COME FROM THE CREW OTHER THAN SEARCHING IN THE CHART FOR THE APPROPRIATE ALTS. I DON'T SEE THE NEED FOR THE USE OF AN ALT WHEN CLRING A FLT FOR THE PROFILE SINCE ANY ALTS, OTHER THAN THE ONES DEPICTED ON THE CHART, WOULD MEAN YOU ARE NOT ON THE PROFILE DSCNT. I'VE DONE THIS ARR SEVERAL TIMES WITH NO PROBS, THE DAY IN QUESTION HAD BEEN A LONG DAY, PLAGUED WITH DEMANDING APCHS WITH LOW LEVEL WINDSHEAR AT EVERY ARPT WE HAD BEEN. TIREDNESS MAY HAVE ALSO PLAYED A ROLE IN THIS EVENT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.