37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 476789 |
Time | |
Date | 200006 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | navaid : djb.vortac |
State Reference | OH |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 14000 msl bound upper : 16000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Weather Elements | Ice Thunderstorm |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zob.artcc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | SF 340A |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other vortac |
Flight Phase | cruise : enroute altitude change cruise : level |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 140 flight time total : 1580 flight time type : 250 |
ASRS Report | 476789 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 3000 flight time type : 450 |
ASRS Report | 476511 |
Events | |
Anomaly | aircraft equipment problem : critical altitude deviation : excursion from assigned altitude inflight encounter : weather inflight encounter other non adherence : clearance non adherence : required legal separation other anomaly other anomaly |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance controller : separated traffic flight crew : exited adverse environment flight crew : regained aircraft control |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Airspace Structure Environmental Factor Flight Crew Human Performance Weather ATC Human Performance Aircraft |
Primary Problem | Weather |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
I was the PF on flight pit to lan. We were assigned 16000 ft MSL as a final altitude. Both the captain and I noted the poor climb performance and also the deteriorating airspeed once leveled at 16000 ft. Moderate rime ice was building on the wing blades, however, the wing deice was keeping the wings clean. We requested 14000 ft. ATC responded 'unable' due to other traffic, and assigned 15000 ft. Once airspeed began to drop again, 14000 ft was requested. We added power to no avail. The captain then stated to ATC, 'we need lower.' at this point the aircraft began buffeting. At the captain's command, I pushed the yoke forward to decrease the angle of attack and descended. While this was happening, the captain again stated that we were in need of a lower altitude and descending. Once leveling at 14000 ft, airspeed increased to a more acceptable level. The flight proceeded without incident. In retrospect, I believe the captain made the correct decision when she told me to descend. I would have done the same thing. We should have requested lower sooner and more directly but the onset of the buffeting was quick and occurred without any stall warning indications -- it did stop once the descent began, however. I have never experienced that type of situation before in any aircraft. While it appeared the main wings were clear of ice, I don't know what the tail section looked like. On our return trip we stayed below 14000 ft and had no problems. It should be noted that another SF340 crew had similar problems while returning from fnt to pit on the same day during the same time frame. In the future, I will pay much closer attention to icing conditions on hot, humid days with high gross weights. I will also ensure ATC clearly understands an immediate need for an altitude change and work with them to the best of my ability. Supplemental information from acn 476511: in the future, I would request a course change prior to waiting for ATC to be able to descend me and I would not allow my aircraft to become so slow.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN SF340 FO RPT ABOUT BEING UNABLE TO MAINTAIN 16000 FT DUE TO RIME ICING AND LEAVING ASSIGNED ALT WITHOUT ATC CLRNC SE OF DJB, OH.
Narrative: I WAS THE PF ON FLT PIT TO LAN. WE WERE ASSIGNED 16000 FT MSL AS A FINAL ALT. BOTH THE CAPT AND I NOTED THE POOR CLB PERFORMANCE AND ALSO THE DETERIORATING AIRSPD ONCE LEVELED AT 16000 FT. MODERATE RIME ICE WAS BUILDING ON THE WING BLADES, HOWEVER, THE WING DEICE WAS KEEPING THE WINGS CLEAN. WE REQUESTED 14000 FT. ATC RESPONDED 'UNABLE' DUE TO OTHER TFC, AND ASSIGNED 15000 FT. ONCE AIRSPD BEGAN TO DROP AGAIN, 14000 FT WAS REQUESTED. WE ADDED PWR TO NO AVAIL. THE CAPT THEN STATED TO ATC, 'WE NEED LOWER.' AT THIS POINT THE ACFT BEGAN BUFFETING. AT THE CAPT'S COMMAND, I PUSHED THE YOKE FORWARD TO DECREASE THE ANGLE OF ATTACK AND DSNDED. WHILE THIS WAS HAPPENING, THE CAPT AGAIN STATED THAT WE WERE IN NEED OF A LOWER ALT AND DSNDING. ONCE LEVELING AT 14000 FT, AIRSPD INCREASED TO A MORE ACCEPTABLE LEVEL. THE FLT PROCEEDED WITHOUT INCIDENT. IN RETROSPECT, I BELIEVE THE CAPT MADE THE CORRECT DECISION WHEN SHE TOLD ME TO DSND. I WOULD HAVE DONE THE SAME THING. WE SHOULD HAVE REQUESTED LOWER SOONER AND MORE DIRECTLY BUT THE ONSET OF THE BUFFETING WAS QUICK AND OCCURRED WITHOUT ANY STALL WARNING INDICATIONS -- IT DID STOP ONCE THE DSCNT BEGAN, HOWEVER. I HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED THAT TYPE OF SIT BEFORE IN ANY ACFT. WHILE IT APPEARED THE MAIN WINGS WERE CLR OF ICE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TAIL SECTION LOOKED LIKE. ON OUR RETURN TRIP WE STAYED BELOW 14000 FT AND HAD NO PROBS. IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT ANOTHER SF340 CREW HAD SIMILAR PROBS WHILE RETURNING FROM FNT TO PIT ON THE SAME DAY DURING THE SAME TIME FRAME. IN THE FUTURE, I WILL PAY MUCH CLOSER ATTN TO ICING CONDITIONS ON HOT, HUMID DAYS WITH HIGH GROSS WTS. I WILL ALSO ENSURE ATC CLRLY UNDERSTANDS AN IMMEDIATE NEED FOR AN ALT CHANGE AND WORK WITH THEM TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 476511: IN THE FUTURE, I WOULD REQUEST A COURSE CHANGE PRIOR TO WAITING FOR ATC TO BE ABLE TO DSND ME AND I WOULD NOT ALLOW MY ACFT TO BECOME SO SLOW.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.